 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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So it's a V-twin. It ain't that horrid new Triumph contraption. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwp1XRTzOo
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Can't see much in that video.
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Shame that nobody has thought to revive the Excelsior/Henderson repop that came out around 10 years ago. that was a well done design that had just made it into production when they ran out of cash.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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I love the legend, but I wish just for once that Indian could actually make it again. How many resurections is this, four or five? And do you count that cheap crap from overseas with the Indian moniker? In my mind, the Indians from the 40s and 50s were better looking than the HDs, with their beautiful, swoopy fenders and deep, dark paints. And that Indian head lite on the front fender was cool. I would definately have one of the antiques if I could afford it.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I liked the leaf spring suspensions.
Is this going to be an Indian this time or another knock off HD with fancy fenders?
Last edited by The_Dog33; 01/24/2008 1:31 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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how the heII i know that was an Indian
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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If it's the same guys that rebuilt Chris-Craft into a real company again they might have a chance.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Thank You Mr. Bloor for resurrecting Triumph and doing it right. 
Last edited by Fishercat; 01/24/2008 5:55 PM.
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I wonder which will be out first, the Indian Chief or the new Triumph Mystery Cruiser?
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
how the heII i know that was an Indian
Well GEEEZ, Grezgorz! The arrows stickin' out of those saddlebags there were a DEAD GIVEAWAY, dude!!! 
Actually, I think Rich is right. After umpteen "revivals" of this brand, I think that alone will put off a lot of people who might consider owning one.
And once again, unless they also have an entry-level model of some sort to also sell(like H-D does it's Sportster), there is going be few able to afford a $20,000-plus motorcycle, and so they will limited their chances of succeeding in this revival once again right there, and I don't care how much money Chris-Craft is going to throw into it, it won't make one bit o' difference.
(talk about the proverbial "hole in the water you throw money into", huh?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Not having an entry level bike has killed many of those V twin comapnies over the year. Can't sell enough $40,000 bikes to keep a business like that afloat. Titan and Ultra Cycles are good examples. Triumph has their Bonnie black.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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 Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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They have a year and a half left. July '09, you'll be able to buy their assets at auction. 
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Dog, I've been wondering why Indian didn't come out with the Scout first. More of an entry-level bike (and in my opinion better-looking!) than the full-blown Chief.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Thats true I also think they would have done better if they hadn't used an S&S engine but one of their own instead. They were just a knock off HD with fancy fenders. Nothing to make them an actual Indian and set them apart from HD.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Agreed.
I think this go-round will yield better results for Indian.
There are loads of riders that would go for Indian on the name alone. I wish them well.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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all i can tell fron that vid is..... yup its a motorcycle  Ed 
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Thats true I also think they would have done better if they hadn't used an S&S engine but one of their own instead. They were just a knock off HD with fancy fenders. Nothing to make them an actual Indian and set them apart from HD.
Unfortunately it was the Power Plus (bottlecap) that sank the ship...they made a terrible motor and the off shore parts killed them. You're right though, they should have gotten Revtech or S&S to OEM them a unit so those Chiefs didn't look like a bike parts catalog on wheels.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 77
Member
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Member
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It was the cost of co-developing the Power Plus with Thunderheart that ate Indians cash, add in creditors that couldn't wait a few months. I think they would have made it given a few more months on life support.
The motor had birthing issues like anything new but the after market has cleaned up the issues and they are actually a very solid reliable and smooth motor now... In '03 I rode the new Chief with the PP and the old Chief with the S&S 88. I would have bought the new one hands down over the old but I was after a Spirit and it's only fate that I did not buy one then and ended up on the Vic...
Rick from OCC built his bike around a Power Plus..
I love the look of the old Pans and the Bottle Cap...
gb
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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True enought Ed, but as I recall the Power Plus motor had just hit the market when they closed the doors for good there in Gilroy CA. And the P-P motor basically was still an S&S motor bottom end, but with those barrel heads and as you put it "bottlecap" valve covers. Perhaps it was the money and time put into the R&D of the S&S motor to make the P-P unit that caused the hemmorrhaging of capital enough to bankrupt the concern.
And Ian, probably the reason the guys in Gilroy used an S&S unit in the first place is that the most expensive part of any prodiction motorcycle manufacturing is going to be the R&D of the engine design.(witness what happened to Kenny Dreer's dream of a revived and more modern Norton once he decided to create his own proprietary motor in that venture)
And so, to save money they just did what they had to in order to get that Indian Gilroy operation rolling in the first place.
Last edited by Dwight; 01/24/2008 8:25 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I see you beat me to it, gb!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I know and agree but I would think that should be figured into the equasion going into it. And yes I believe the bottle cap was still an S&S bottom end but to me wouldn't matter much either way because as you pointed out it came too late in any event. It would be like the new Triumph coming out with a Yamaha 650 Special engine and calling it a Bonnie. I think it would have flopped. I actually wouldn't have bought an origonal Triumph Triple from the late 90s because to me it wasn't Triumph since the head was made by Kawasaki and who knows who made the rest of the parts. That and the design was too much like the Cadi 4100 engine and that scared me too.
EDIT: Upon rereading that another thought came to mind. I remember several guys I know getting all excited about Indian comming back but then seeing basicly a HD with fenders and deciding to stay with HD.
Last edited by The_Dog33; 01/24/2008 8:37 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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I too love the Indians and would own a relic if I were a rich man. This is a powerful company putting up the cash but I believe they are headed down the the wrong war path. If you read the FAQ on their website it seem to say " we aint putting out junk" this will be a quality full dress Chief worth every dollar. Kinda sounds like they gonna want Heep big bucks for running engine! Starting with a $20,000.00 entry and working down from there seems like a bit to much bravado. We'll see, I wish them all the luck in the world. PS: If you just have to be the first kid on the block to own a "New Indian" they are taking $1000.00 deposits. Hmmmmm, that sounds familiar. Is Kenny Dreer head of finance? 
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well, funny you bring up the Yamaha XS650 thing here, Ian.
I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this around here...BUT...I believe the Hinckley Bonnevilles ARE more related in both design concept and execution(I better watch sayin' THAT word now) to that Yamaha model than they are to the old pushrod Meriden Triumphs of yore.
(THERE, I said it....fire away, folks...but remember, I can usually hold up pretty well under fire around here!!!)
It's called "modernization". And what's more modern than a DOHC motor? HUH?!
(yep! the Old Guard isn't gonna like what I said here, but fellas....IT'S THE TRUTH and YOU KNOW IT!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 01/24/2008 8:57 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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(and now let me see if I can divert the attention of those brandishing pitchforks and torches with the following....)
Speaking of Indians (that's what this thread WAS about)...did anybody around here know that before John Britten died at age 45, the Kiwi who designed one of the most fantastic motorcycles EVER, BTW) that there were supposedly talks between him and the Gilroy men to see the viability of producing HIS engine for use in that venture?!
Now THAT would have been ONE UNBELIEVEABLE MACHINE worth owning!!!
(somebody look and see if the mob has decipated, please)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Well, funny you bring up the Yamaha XS650 thing here, Ian.
I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this around here...BUT...I believe the Hinckley Bonnevilles ARE more related in both design concept and execution(I better watch sayin' THAT word now) to that Yamaha model than they are to the old pushrod Meriden Triumphs of yore.
Actually, since the Yammie is a SOHC, 2-valve per cylinder engine, I have to say  .
The Laverda Strike: DOHC, 4-valve, air-cooled, is a much closer relative.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Drats! I guess I shouldn't 'a said "D"OHC there, Brian. BUT, The Laverda's engine is inclined, whereas the Yamaha's is vertical and resembles the Bonnies, both old and new, much more. (Hey...back in the day, they didn't call the XS650 "The Japanese Bonneville" for nothin' ya know?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I picked that engine for it's similarities on purpose.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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On the other hand you could by this very authentic item from Kiwi for just under $60K:  As to the Power Plus engine's comment I'll quote Blackhawk Motorworks white paper: "The imported flywheels used by Indian Motorcycle Co. suffered from soft materials, machining problems, and unlike tapers. This has caused major problems with the flywheels assembly’s ability to maintain its concentricity. Consequently, flywheels are shifting on the tapers and coming out of ‘true’; leading to several problems like increased vibration, lower end knocks, broken pinion shafts and the loosening of the cast-in case race insert in the right side case, rendering the cases as bad. " You can read the whole thing here. Even the guys at American Iron had Blackhawk rebuild their PP for a custom. In their words "it shook like a dog trying to pass a peach pit". Not all of them were that bad but enough of them were and combined with the debt it sank the company. It's so sad, I really had a thing for their Springfield model...
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Have to admit, the Springfield Indians were one of THE most beautiful motorcycles EVER! Deco never goes out of style in my book.
But Ed, what I don't understand is if the bottom end was essentially the same basic S&S design, then was it just a case of a different and inferior supplier's flywheel assembly causing this engine's problems and not the basic design itself?
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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My understanding is that they built the Power Plus from the bottom up (2002 and later) and didn't use parts from S&S (which is a great company). The oil pumps were also made off shore and came back in a variety of tolerances and are also suspect. You are correct, though, that once rebuilt (that would be a fee of $5K) to the proper tolerances the oil pumps and bottom ends work very well giving creedence to the original design.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Drats! I guess I shouldn't 'a said "D"OHC there, Brian. BUT, The Laverda's engine is inclined, whereas the Yamaha's is vertical and resembles the Bonnies, both old and new, much more.
If You have to go Yamaha, how about the TX500? Vertical enough?
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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If I recall correctly Brian, the TX series had some basic design flaws in it's valve-train of some sort which caused it to be pulled from the market after only a couple of year.
(but as I said, I may have my facts wrong about that or I'm confusing it with another model of theirs)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
how the heII i know that was an Indian
+1
if life gives you lemons keep them because hey,free lemons.
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Wow!! The TX 500 I had one of those back in 1974, Nice bike but NO TBA. 
05 TBA Mulberry/Silver, Thunder Bike pipes, K&N single Filter, 132 main Jet's, Snorkles Removed
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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You're right Dwight, it was replaced by the XS500 in, I think, 1975.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I didn't know Indian ever made an entire engine in the last incarnation. A cast in case race is always a bad idea. Races should always be replaceable for rebuild purposes. One reason I don't like the no bearing design of our heads but seems they last a good long time so that atleast is a good thing. The bottom end problem sort of puts me in mind of the smaller singles from Triumph (and BSA, same engine) such as the Trail Blazer 250. Those tended to lose the seal on the crank and cook rod bearings.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
how the heII i know that was an Indian
+1
Easy.
The same way you know the spy photo of the motionless bike in the other thread is the 2009 Triumph Mystery Cruiser.
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
And once again, unless they also have an entry-level model of some sort to also sell(like H-D does it's Sportster), there is going be few able to afford a $20,000-plus motorcycle, and so they will limited their chances of succeeding in this revival once again right there, and I don't care how much money Chris-Craft is going to throw into it, it won't make one bit o' difference.
I think you guys are missing the boat here. There's a lot of baby boomers with plenty of cash out there, and nostalgia sells. I know a few guys who deal in old roadster parts and old airplanes and they will swear up and down one important fact: old rich guys will pay a lot of money for things that bring them back to their youth.
I don't know what Chris-Craft's bottom line is right now, but from what I've seen they make a heck of a boat. Once I finish school I'm trading my Sea Ray 190 for a Chris-Craft Launch 25.
I think the two owners are being pretty smart about this - the Indian Chief is a classic retro art deco icon. The big wavy fenders, the Indian head light, the leather trim, it's classic. That high-end bike is going to have a way better margin than anything entry-level, so coming out with it first will get the most cash in the door.
2007 America, Phantom Black/Sunset Red
Deposit down on 2010 Thunderbird - can't wait for it!
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I think you have a good point there Matt, however if Indian wishes to have a larger presence in the marketplace than just your average "custom" motorcycle concern, they will eventually have to include a less expensive model in their lineup.
This, as I stated above, is why Harley sells a lot of Sportsters with the hope that the buyers of them will eventually "trade up" to a Big Twin.
(in other words, the Sporty is their "Bread and Butter" model which helps put the roast beef on the table)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: 2009 Indian Video
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
how the heII i know that was an Indian
Call the number for "Tech Support" 
Erwin
05 America
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