Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Riding Technique Clutchless Up-Shifting??

This seems to be a fairly common practice, I think I've read Dinqua mentioning it himself, and my best friend that's been riding since he was knee-high to a knee-high, say's it's just fine. Are there any do's and don't's about up-shifting without the clutch?? Is it better for slow accelerations, vice WOT acceleration?? Where in the Rev range do people normally shift if they shift without the clutch??

I have always done it and always will.
ALL the real bike racers do this, it is second nature.
The trick to doing it quick is called "Pre-loading". This is a technique where you actually apply upward pressure on the shifter while you are riding in a gear. With the shifter lever cocked and pre-loaded to the point where it won't move upward anymore, all you do is let off the throttle by a pubimeter and wham you just shifter into the next higher gear. Back on WOT instantly. It is effortless and does absolutely no damage to anything. There must be load on the tranny to do this (meaning you must be in gear and moving) If you do it when there is no load it just shifts and you stall.
That make sense?

Forgot to add:
You shift at the same points you normally would in your riding technique. However, at the middle/higher end of the rpm range it is a lot smoother and faster.

Appreciate your insights, friend..My best friend mentioned something about matching rpms, but didn't really elaborate. I gather he used to do this alot when he was racing his little yamaha YX-600. Since my ride's alot more fun above 4 grand :-), I normally don't shift till around then anyway. Guess I'll have to work on the pre-load thing a little. Thanks again!

It's really slick, and I upshift this way about 75% of the time. You can do it at pretty much any RPM, but at lower RPMs in 1st and 2nd you can buck the bike if you aren't really smooth with the throttle. I've found it's easy to do smoothly at most any RPM in 3rd-5th gears. It's always smooth under hard acceleration at high RPM's... smoother than using your clutch.

Also, in theory it should work when down shifting, but the sudden drag on the tire could make you actually drag your rear tire, especially in lower gears depending on RPMs (2nd to 1st) - so I'd avoid it. Perhaps I know this because I've done it - although I was on good pavement so the tire only chirped.

The way it works on a downshift is you let off the gas to let the bike start to slow, then put downward pressure on your shifter, then roll on the throttle slightly and it'll down shift. It's not the smoothest, unless you are downshifting to accelerate - then it's quick. I have no idea if this is bad for the bike though. I just know it works with no grinding or anything. It's the same mechanical feeling as the clutchless upshfit.

Anybody else ever try this?

Have heard that Downshifting without the clutch isn't all that good for the trans, besides the possility of locking the rear tire. I don't know the how or why, but that's just what I've heard.

The rev-matching thing is basically what Pat said, let off the throttle, which unloads the tranny, allowing the pressure you have applied to move the shifter, then with the engine slowing, it matches to the new gear, make sense?

yea, what benny said.

I don't do much of the clutchless downshifting, that is really hard on the motor and gears. In the old days when I was a wee lad, I used to bang them down while motocrossing, but I tore the motors apart all the time so it didn't matter. never did grenade a gearbox but came close and locked a few up, just long enough to lose the race and have to let her cool be fore I could get it out of gear and then restart the motor.

As has been mentioned, clutchless shifting requires easing the load on the gearbox and synchronising the gearspeed for the next gear to go in smoothly. The wider the spread between the gear ratios, the more technique that is required. For this reason, it is better to practice on most bikes in the upper gears and use the clutch for the 1-2 shift. Some of the smaller commuter bikes are different though. They have the lowers gears all close together for better acceleration in traffic and then a big jump to top gear for economy riding away from downtown congestion.
Downshifting can be done without the clutch, but it takes a lot of practive and finesse. You first back off the throttle to put a negativ load on the gearbox. Then, apply a light pressure on the shifter and blip the throttle. The correct amount of throttle, pressure on the shifter, and the speed your foot moves after the transmission disengages have to be just right to get a smooth crunch and jerk free downshift. The trick is to use just enough throttle to run the engine up to the speed it would be running at that ground speed in the next lower gear and shift just quickly enough that the next lower gear pops in just as the engine reaches that speed.

Ha! I used to shift my 51 Chevy pickemup truck without the clutch. Matching engine speed with were it should be in the gear you wanted was key. In essence matching the rpms is a manual way of synchronizing the gears.

Just today on the way to work I tried your clutchless upshifting. Amazing how smooth it is. I don't think I'll try clutchless downshifting Vera, but the clutchless upshifting I'll have to do to even dream of keeping up with your nad crushing machine! hehe

Yeah, tried it for the first time yesterday myself. Bike bucks a little bit, and engine makes kind of a honk, to my ears at least. Definitely better going to 3rd, 4th, and 5th, and the hard throttle definitely helped. Then again, I probably just need the practice :-)

Well whaddya know? I read this post last night and decided to give this "clutchless" thing a try on the ride in to work todya and it worked! And it was real easy. I tried Dinqua's "pre-loading" tip and it slipped up a notch so easily I wasn't sure it had done it. I'm gonna give it another whirl on the way home. I guess the real trick is trying to get into a habit of "no clutch up - clutch down." At the moment, the habit is a straight "clutch up or down."

But apart from it being a cool thing, is there any benefit to clutchless up-shifting?

Siggy

The benefit is you can do it one handed. Which means you can carry your beer in one hand while riding
Mostly because you are able to shift faster if you're racing.

HAHAHA. From what I understand after talking to my "Satanic Mechanic," it's an excellent method of conserving time and momentum, particularly if you're racing. HOWEVER, you MUST MUST MUST use the clutch when downshifting, or you'll really mangle your tranny.

It's really just a trick of matching up the rev's with where the bike wants to shift. My old SV650 wanted to shift around 6,500, and anywhere above there she'd hop into the next gear with no problem. It's really the only way to do it if you're dragging with someone (not that I'd EVER do such a thing, because that would be illegal).

--Jaeger

I did it!

I do it on my 4-wheeler

Tried it on my way in to work this morning. A little bit of traffic so probably not the best time to try but what the heck. Yeah, if you have the load on the gearbox right it shifts into the next higher gear like melted butter. I did however hit a few little chinks while shifting. Speed/load not right (i.e. rpm's too low). Will this do anything to harm the gearbox?

A really heavy crunch is something to worry about, it will eventyally round off the shifting dogs to the point that it will pop out of gear. Small clunks won't do any serious damage untill after several dozen repetitions.

When you can do it on a 10 ton dump truck with a non-syncro trans and make no noise - that's when you know you've got the touch. It's a man/machine Zen sorta thing. Its not just the human eliment, nor just the machine - It's not just feel but also sound. It occurs only when all the components are present. Yes, Grasshopper, once you've snatched the pebble from my hand, your journey will begin. Now, my son, go and iron your obi until it is time for your next lesson.

Definitely have noticed that it works better with the pre-load, and a little bit of prior coordination. The few times that I've tried doing it just off the fly, instead of pre-loading, got some mildly unpleasant results, kind of like I was forcing the trans. into a false neutral instead of 4th or 5th. If I think about it, and get the foot ready, it always goes smoothly.

Get the foot ready and a good follow thru so it positively goes into gear. I've half-assed it once or twice and found a new neutral or two.

I hardly ever use the cluch when I up shift on this bike. It is so smooth and I shift about the same time I would with a clutch. I just let up on the gas so slightly and it slips in so smooth. must use positive lift with your foot or you can find a new neutral. The old Bonnevilles were not as smoooth as the america, but it could be done. I also would not advise down shifting without the cluch. By the way my old bonny was a 1967.

Ok, I've tried it now too, although I will rarely see a need for it, it is easy enough to do.
My old Bonnie was a '67 too....

The old triumph looks good I like the handle bars

I tried it, but its not as smooth as using clutch especially in high revs. I think it could eventually damage something.

Imok, if it isn't smooth maybe you aren't letting off the gas enough. I up shift in every gear much smoother than with the clutch.

I think the upshift thing is terrific. Can't believe how fast it can be. I was having some trouble with clutch upshifts when I was accelerating hard - as in sometimes it would pop out of gear. Not a problem with the clutchless up shift.

Oh, did I mention that it's a whole lotta fun??

I've had my TBA almost a year now (new rider as well) and I'd never heard of clutchless upshifting until I happened on this thread a few weeks ago. I've been using it ever since and really like this method, very cool and efficient.

Seems like I learn something new on a weekly basis at this forum. Thanks guys!