Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Dealer "Gimmicks"

I’m interested to see if anyone has purchased a Triumph from any dealer in Texas and what the various fees truly are. After receiving a quote from a few dealers I noticed a few “gimmicks” that the dealer uses to beef up their profit. I have used a system to purchase automobiles in the past and it follows as basically having car dealers bid competitively against each other. It consists of faxing the fleet/sales manager at 15-20 dealers across the Texas/Louisiana area and requesting a bid from each of them. Usually I receive approximately 10 bids back and once all the bids are in I then contact the highest dealer asking if he/she could beat the lowest bid. I go through this cycle usually just one more time. I have purchased cars for up to $2500 below INVOICE. The best part about is I never walk into the dealership till the deal is complete, this system outdoes any of the free online bidding sights because they are usually paid for by the dealer. Ok, now back to the main question. I am attempting to determine what the “holdback” and various legitimate fees that Triumph dealers receive from the manufacture. For Honda, Yamaha, etc. this information can be found at www.cyclebuy.com, but they don't have anything for Triumph. I wish they did but since they don't I have to do it alone. What I'm speaking about is for example Honda pays each of their dealers 3% of the base MSRP of the car. On top of this Honda also has other means to give the dealer more money in the way of “X” dollars for each car, but this is different for every dealer. If I knew what the “holdback” was of the Triumph motorcycles I would be able to determine around what the true cost the dealer pays for each motorcycle. I am willing to pay for freight because this is a legitimate fee that the dealer pays and it should be exactly the same cost for every dealer across the entire United States. Still I had one dealer try to raise their profit by $100 just by quoting me $500 for freight when the actual cost is somewhere between $400 and $450. In Texas dealers are taxed by the State a Dealer Inventory Tax, I refuse to pay this tax because it’s a tax by the State to the dealer, its not sales tax (i.e. from the State to the purchaser), but one dealer tried to pass his tax onto me. Also he attempted to charge me approximately $300 for assembly/set up, what a joke. It’s the dealer’s responsibility to put the motorcycle together, so they pay a guy $10 an hour to assemble a motorcycle but charge me $300 for it. Now comes the title, inspection, license fee one quote was $150 when the true cost (as determined by the fees that the State of Texas charges which is publicly posted) is approximately $50 to $60 for all inspections, registration, and licensing. The best one was the $50 documentation fee, he was going to charge me $50 to fill out the paperwork that he gets paid to fill out. In the end the grand total of “gimmicks” is $550 of fake fees that the dealer wanted to use to increase the profit. The age old answer for this is well he has to make a profit to stay in business. Think of it this way, he receives probably something around 3% of hold back, so for a $8300 motorcycle that comes to $250 plus the difference of $250 between MSRP and Invoice, so that’s $500 right there plus $550 in “gimmicks” making a grand total $1050 of pure profit, which in the end is 13% of the selling price. If anyone has any suggestions I am open for them, I firmly agree that the dealer should make a fair profit but I refuse to to be lied and cheated to. Also if anyone is in the process of purchasing a new automobile I would suggest either doing it alone by using http://www.fightingchance.com/ or pay paying someone else to do it for you at http://www.checkbook.org/auto/carbarg.cfm.

Wow, I almost read all that......NOT. Smells too much like spam to me.

Bill...Welcome! You wouldn't happen to be a C.P.A., would ya?

(if you're not...you've certainly missed your calling in life, dude)

Yes, you're right it is a lot of information but I just want to be as informed as possible. An informed buyer will be able to make the correct decision and get a good deal. The suggestions for people looking to purchase a new auto is just that suggestions, I've suggest it to friends and familey. The ones that follow my advice are happy with their deal. If you don't want the adive then don't listen to it, but if you research my information you will find that it is true. My ture reason for creating the post is stated in the post, what is the "holdback" for Triumph Dealers and what are ligitmate fees? I just want to be able to receive a fair price when I make my purchase. Is it not the right thing to do, should I walk into a dealer without doing any research and just keeping my fingers crossed that he's looking out for my best interest?

Welcome to the site

"but I refuse to to be lied and cheated to" I thought you said you contacted dealers? Isn't that what they do?

Thank you for the welcome, Dwight. No I'm not a CPA I just don't enjoy being taken advantage of.

(sorry...I couldn't resist)

Okay, my first thoughts about the minutia of your inquiry above is that the motorcycle business is usually run a little differently than the auto sales business. In that I mean, cars are a much more mass market item than their two-wheeled counterparts, and thus because of their numerous dealerships, bargaining to buy a new Chevy Impala, Ford Focus or Toyota Camry, you'd find an enhanced competitive environment in which to bargain against each of the dealership's bids.

Because motorcycle dealerships are few and far between(unfortunately, especially those with the name "Triumph" hung from their shingles), I think your "Lending-Tree.Com" approach here may not exactly be a correlative experience.

My suggestion is that you decide how much you are willing to pay for the motorcycle you have in mind to purchase, using the M.S.R.P. as your initial high target price, and then dicker a little for some added accessories at no additional charge.

Good Luck!

Dwight, I see where you're coming from and thank you for your honest answer. It is true that even if I was to contact dealers all the way from Texas to Mississippi I could only find 6 Triumph Dealers. Its impossible for me to have them bid competitivly against each other because of the limited number of dealers. I'm willing to take a hit on the purchase of the motorcycle because of this but I just wanted to decrease the hit as much as possible. Once again I greatly appreciated the warm welcome to the site and the advice.

No problem, dude! It's always nice to meet another person wise enough to avoid the ol' "Lifestyle"(read: H-D) pull, and who feels that their hard-earned moola is best spent on a brand of motorcycle which not only has as much "heritage" as those "Lifestyle" folks often like to brag about, but dollar or dollar is probably a BETTER motorcycle.

(you may not be a C.P.A., but you certainly seem to be brighter than most people, dude....except for that unfortunate run-on paragraphical problem of yours, that is.....you wouldn't happen to know our friend Greg Yount in South Carolina[hopefully soon to be Colorado], would ya?!)

Sorry Bill if I came off a little rough.... with no personal info filled in, no introduction and a handful of links in your first post, it looks like spam.

Welcome to the club and I hope you find the bike you're looking for at a reasonable price.

Stewart, I could understand your idea that it could have been spam. With the internet these days who can you really trust. The reason why there's a lack of info is because I've just signed up for an account. Thanks for the welcome.

I still think its spam. With your knowlege, why on earth are you shopping new anyhow? They drop like a rock.

Buy used, buy in a market that is regulated by reality and true supply and demand. Buy from somebody who already took the hit. Buy one that already has many accessories on it, you don't have to pay through the nose for.

Triumphs are selling very well and their dealers are not that desperate.

Good point Ron, but some people prefer purchasing new. Bill here might be one of them.

Bill, while there may not be all that many used Americas and Speedmaster out there(I'm assuming these are the bikes that you're looking at), you might take Ron's advice and look into the used market, possibly on Ebay Motors.

These machines are basically pretty bullet-proof and shouldn't give you any problems for years if you'd decide to buy a bike with say 20-30k or even more miles on their clock. And you might be able to find a very nice example for as little as 4-Grand.

(you know...particularly that bike which belongs to that poor dude who's goin' through that divorce right now)

I've looked at a used Speedmaster over the past few months. I prefer to buy new, I get a good deal in the beginning and I know the history of the vehicle because I have owned it through every mile. Triumph does have an excellent record of dependability but I just would prefer to have a new one, thanks for the advice though.

About the idea that my first post is spam is starting to give me a little laugh. The information that I posted is as previously stated just plan old advice. The information can be matched to other well know sites for example pay Consumer Reports for their auto purchase information packet and you will find that the information that I posted is the exact information that they will send to you for a few dollars. Try Yahoo Motors it gives you a few good pointers too. How do I know so much it’s because I’ve already paid for the information from Consumerreports.com, fightingchance.com, carbuyingtips.com, etc. The information is out there some of it’s for free some of it’s for a charge. I would have done the same for motorcycles but because the information is very limited I was unable to locate any, this is why I have turned to you. I was looking for something like www.cyclebuy.com. The www.cyclebuy.com is a site provides the same information that Consumer Reports does for cars but cycle buy does it for motorcycles.

Don't get to worked up about the spam thing. We're a little knee-jerk around here. As with all forums, we've had it come up before.

I can understand you wanting to save a few bucks up front, who doesn't?, but something else you may want to consider.... parts and service.
Some dealers are quite good, some are marginal, and there are a few (as reported in various threads on here) that shouldn't be allowed to work on Big Wheels, let alone motorcycles.
Establishing a good relationship with a good dealer may be worth those few extra dollars you spent up front.

JMHO...

The MSRP is available for these bikes and the dealer probably has a prep charge. Any other added charges are probably bogus.

Deon is right on the money about choosing a dealer. It is a very close second to selecting a bike. A good dealer is like a good wife; a good one will complement your life and enhance your riding experience and a bad one will take some of the fun out of the ride. I know, I've had a crap dealer and ******wife, but now my life is great with a newer trumpet and a loyal and supportive wife.
DO NOT HESITATE to drive a little farther for a good dealer. Ask around. You'll be glad you did in the long run.

Bill, you could always say what part of Texas you're in, and someone local could make a recommendation?

Very good points made about good/bad dealers. I got my America at a big multi-brand dealership (mostly BMW), and didn't exactly get screwed, but it wasn't really first-class treatment either.
So then I find the dealer out on the other side of town that has the RAT group...family-owned, you walk in and they give you coffee and cookies. Any of the sales people are just as happy to chat about Triumph history or whatever, as to talk about the bike you're looking at. It's completely okay with them if you just come in for a chat and hang out.
One time I went in with a buddy and it started raining (we were on the bikes), I was in need of better rain pants anyway, so I picked some out and my debit card decided it wasn't going to work that day - so the lady that runs the place told me to go ahead and take them, come back and pay on the weekend. $150 Olympia pants...no problem, we trust you. (and I'd probably visted 3 times and spent less than $50 previously)
Now I just wish I'd bought my bike there, whether I paid less or not.
Figure I'll make it up by getting my next bike there
Oh they throw great holiday parties too!

We get guys stopping on here to spam or sell something then never hear from them again. Its you are not the case, I apologize ahead of time.

Actually with Triumph the sales and gimmicks are not like selling Honda. Very limited market share and a very weak dealer network lets them charge whatever they want as long as the market can stand it.

When I purchase a vehicle, I use EDMUNDSCOM. It gives me the invoice and msrp of both vehicle and accessories. It even list hold backs and incentives......Angelis

I pity the dealer that sells to you, Bill. I can imagine you in there brow beating the guy for every item you buy. I have my own business and come across customers like you. I usually give them the phone # of my competitor!

Bill- I'm like you when it comes to buying 4 wheeled vehicles; I do my research, go in armed to the teeth with my Edmunds, Consumers etc. value printouts, say hello to the salesman, tell him which vehicle I'm there to buy, tell him that it'll be the easiest commission he's ever made, and that we'll be done in an hour so that he can get on to his next customer....I'm a very practical single Mom, I work full time for my money and I value it. I food shop with coupons, I look for the best deals on all my purchases, etc. And I save for retirement and rainy days.

So, with that said, just go buy a bike and start RIDING!!
Riding is where you suspend your belief in the seriousness of everyday life...you let go of all of your worries and stresses and important responsibilities and just ride and corner and accelerate and relax and master your fears (not just of riding in challenging conditions) and count the hawks in the sky and see sunsets and sunrises and eat lunches at tiny diners and daydream in your head and meet wicked cool people and laugh till you're sick and play not work and smell the different smells of the air going from sun to shade....

So what if a dealership gets $500 over what you could have paid 6 hours away at another dealership. Not to mention people die riding these things every day, so buying a bike is not about making yet another "safe" choice. It's about indulging in a luxurious and perfect way to play and be in the world. You'll have made back that $500 in life value by the end of your first month of digging your ride and having people come up and admire your coolest of cool Triumph.

When I bought my tba I went the route of calling around to four dealers including one in another province(state) and onw that was in a much larger city a few hundred miles away. I did not get into the weeds on what made up the price and add-ons though, I just looked at the out-the-door total. It was no different to me than buying a car - the dealer with the best price gets the purchase and the shop with the best, most convenient service does the after-sales service.

I would like to say thank you for your thoughts and comments. I've decided I will call the few dealers in the area (Southeast Texas and maybe the group in New Orleans) and see who gives me the best price. All of them are friendly and have positive reviews. Once again thank you and have a Happy New Year.

Bill, bought my Bonneville America in April of 2006, it was a 2005 model and the dealer lowered the price 500.00 to move the bike since the new models were in. Triumph also added another 500.00 worth of accessories and with that I put a windscreen and saddlebags on her, plus a little extra chrome and a sissy bar.
When shopping for the bike I too checked with several dealers in many southern states. A dealer in Tennessee beat the price I eventually paid by almost 500.00 but I ultimately bought the bike from Meyers Mortorcycles in Asheville NC for the following reasons:
1. They looked like a motorcycle shop and did business the old fashion way, they were truley interested in me and the type of bike that I wanted.
2. All of the employees and the salesmen were experienced Triumph and Ducati motorcycle riders and had been for many years, and believe me you know when you meet them, they just seem to know what they are talking about.
3. I inspected their shop and the mechanics were very friendly and knowledgeable and were eager to serve...this shop services what they sell and since my purchase have really performed well for me.
4. After the sale they still treat me like a special person and make me feel right at home whenever I call or drop in. I really trust them and they really do care about me and my TBA.
Bill, it is always nice to get a good price on most anything but it is worth it to me to pay a little extra if necessary to get the proper service, trust, and comfort of dealing with someone who you just know will not only treat you right at the sale, but many years after.
Good luck and enjoy the ride...I would not trade anything for the experience I have had so far with my Bonneville and my dealer.
Dennis B in Morganton, NC

If you're gonna be a cool, happy biker like Paula, Eric and Dennis (and me) you're gonna have ta loosen up a little. Pay less attention to the numbers unless you're counting bugs in your teeth or milemeters between non destinations. Ride on, bro!

Buying and selling is a relationship, go build a couple and see who commits to the best deal. The purchase isnt the only thing you will need, with service and warranty stuff good benefits to have. To browbeat a dealer too much will make them less liely to work for you. The experience must be mutually beneficial to be of any true worth.

call DEEP SOUTH CYCLES in hattiesburg, ms., they do not charge freight, set-up. they are a very good dealer, and a good bunch of guys [no i did'nt buy from them,, i got the first blue and white '07 america i could find] same deal tho