 thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jetting
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We all know thunderbike pipes are said to require no other mods to gain the performance boost advertised. And thats listed as a pretty substantial boost. Sounds a bit hard to believe actually. But what if you DO re-jet and do airbox mods or removal? Will it be even better? I can't imagine a bigger boost w/o major engine mods, but on the other hand how can pipes alone without jetting/airbox mods even get what they advertise in the first place? Kinda goes against conventional wisdom of needing to open up BOTH intake and exaust doesn't it?
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Noted a significant 'seat of the pants' improvement with the TunderBike pipes, no other changes other then backing out the idle mixture screws.....The Big Smile on my face my add some extra "drag" at speed, but it is hardly noticible......
Warren
04 Caspian Blue and Silver America
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
There were a lot of discussions on the old forum about the stock performance increase and if I remember correctly, it was achieved by designing the pipes to be "in tune" with the intake and exhaust pulses for optimum flow.
So what they are saying is that the Tbikes are designed so that any jetting or airbox mods would likely make them perform worse, right?
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Quote:
So what they are saying is that the Tbikes are designed so that any jetting or airbox mods would likely make them perform worse, right?
That's exactly what I was told by TB before buying a pair. Could be a marketing gimmick to set themselves apart from the rest, but I believe what they say (ask for the modded dyno curves). But I believe the tinkerers here (Dinqua?) will differ, so YMMV. Another bit of info is that the performance increases are less on the '05 SM's because of the reprofiled cam that year.
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I was just sitting back and keeping my mouth shut, but you guys that know me know how hard that really is for me to do. I was also told by ThunderDoods that the pipes are specifically tuned for a stock 790 motor. I beleive that is so, however...the tuning of the pipes (cam dwell vs header length vs baffle positioning vs pipe length) is still the same with carb mods. Performance exhaust pipes are tuned using these specific distances, openings and cam/valve timing. It is a mathmatical result, not dependent upon carb settings, Strictly determined by the physical aspects of the motor. Which is the same, correct? (less big bore and such, which is a whole different ballgame) Therefore, There is still room for improvement. I would ponder to guess that if I kept my bike the same, and just put on say short TOR's, there would be a noticible performance drop. Just my opinion, I may be wrong. But mine runs pretty good if I do say so myself.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
I was also told by ThunderDoods that the pipes are specifically tuned for a stock 790 motor.
Hmm......i assume that since my 865cc speedmaster has a different cam and capacity that these pipes may not be the way to go then, eh? Can't win ! Every time i begin to start settling on a pipe something comes up that makes me cross it off the list. I'm beginning to think i may just say F it and stay with the stockers.
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johnny they are worth it for the sound
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
Hmm......i assume that since my 865cc speedmaster has a different cam and capacity that these pipes may not be the way to go then, eh?
Iknowjohnny,
I have the 865cc SM with TBike pipes installed from day one. I am unable to determine the extra "oomph" the bike gets from them (like I said, I never ran it stock) but this bike flies when compared to the stock 790cc "loaner" I was riding for a few months last year until my bike arrived. It is true that the TBike exhausts don't give you the same boost as with the 790cc (unfortunately I was told this by the TBike guys only after I ordered them - whereas up until then they were telling me they were fine on the 865cc). I was also told by the TBike guys (in January) that they were looking at a mod for the 865cc or possibly a new pipe altogether. Either way this baby flies and the sound is great. Sorry not much usable info ... just my own experience.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
I was also told by the TBike guys (in January) that they were looking at a mod for the 865cc or possibly a new pipe altogether.
Thanks for mentioning that. I'd never had known. I think i may wait a while and see what they're up to or email them and see if they will let go of some inside info. I'd hang mmyself if i ordered them and found out a short time later they just released a new pipe especially for the 865 !
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bedouin -
i wouldn't hold my breath on that one. it's true the pipes were originally designed for the 790 & the 28hp was backed up by their dyno runs back then with NO other fuel/air mods. if you recall ( you had just joined) there was that period of time we all heard of a bigger ( possibly 1100) bonny/speedmaster that turned out to be the 865 speedy. i corresponded with those guys then & thats near to 2 years ago that they told me the same thing about developing pipes tuned to the 865 motor!!
from 3 years of pipe discussion it seems sound & quality ought to be the #1 concern with the more expensive pipes being the ones that respond better to other performance mods. near to everyone has agreed cheap sounds cheap & is deafening to boot.
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does anybody have a wav file of their speedy with the short thunder pipes on.
Duck...
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I did a stock dyno run last saturday before I installed my Thunderbike short pipes. I'm planning on getting another dyno run tomorrow and get an accurate before and after reading. My bike is otherwise stock. I'm pretty skeptical of Thunderbikes claims also but the pipes sure look and sound nice.
Hugh
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
So what they are saying is that the Tbikes are designed so that any jetting or airbox mods would likely make them perform worse, right?
They probably won't be worse, but maybe not quite as good. And, it may well be that they are making a CYA statement because they just havent had time and money available for testing, so they don't know how well it would work. They put their pipes on a stock 800 engine and tuned for best power gain. If you change the engine size a bit or open up the intake system, the overall tuning changes. With other changes, you may not see the claimed 28% power difference between stock and TB pipes, but you will still see a respectable difference.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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 Re: thunderbike pipes & airbox tweaks/removal/jett
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Quote:
I did a stock dyno run last saturday before I installed my Thunderbike short pipes. I'm planning on getting another dyno run tomorrow and get an accurate before and after reading. My bike is otherwise stock. I'm pretty skeptical of Thunderbikes claims also but the pipes sure look and sound nice.
Hugh
Which bike? 790 or 865? If it's the 865 i will be awaiting VERY anxiously to see your results. That would be the deciding factor for me in buying them or not, if that is your bike is an 865. I'm right on the fence at the moment because while i've heard form a few 05' SM owners who said the pipes DID make a considerable difference, i don't know what they feel is considerable and if it'll match what would be the minimum acceptable performance boost to me. I'd hate to spend that kind of money just for better sound because for me thats nowhere near worth $700. But that plus a healthy boost in powe rwould be. So please do post your result. It would be a great help to me. Thanks.
On another note, i emailed Tbikes to ask them about any changes they might be doing to develop a different version of the pipes especially for the 05' engine. They told me that they were NOT because they found that engine doesn't respond to pipes the same way and they wouldn't be able to get more out of it by changing the design. They did however say they are about 1/2 way thru testing of some other very simple minor mods they have been working on with the 05 speedy and he said that they are very impressed with the results. he said the engine responds very well with the mods and will be offering them in the future. True or not i dunno. But he said to feel free to spread the word. I can't imaginge what kind of mods these would be because he pretty much insinuated that they aren't major things like bore kits, cams or other major engine work. Maybe the same old pipes but with airbox and/or carb jetting? who knows. but whatever it is i'm dying of curiosity ! I see no reason why they'd be lying about this because if they were they'd only be hurting thier pipe sales by causing people to hold off on buying pipes for thier 05's in anticipation of these new mods.
Last edited by iknowjohnny; 08/19/2005 5:28 PM.
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My Speedmaster is a 04 model. You can see the Dyno runs here: http://www.twowheelsgood.net/speedmaster/speedy.htmlChecking their website they only show a 13% increase with the Short Sport mufflers so I'm not disappointed with the 10% increase I got. My peake numbers are pretty close to theirs but my speedy started off stronger stock than any others I've seen dyno numbers for. Hugh
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Hi, Just a little clarification of the 865 work we are doing without making it too easy for anyone else thinking of offering the same. On the 790`s to get them really cranking a bore kit works wonders, with pipes etc. of course. Although the kit itself is priced well, we find that by the time machine shop costs are included it gets into pretty major figures, and that is before any headwork, which should be done at this stage, all in all a pretty major financial cost. Triumph have now in effect provided the expensive part of the operation on the new 865 motor, therefore what used to be a rather expensive procedure will now be considerably cheaper and easier. We plan to offer an exchange modified cylinder head and cam kit. The time and effort required swapping over a cylinder head on an air cooled twin is not substantial, but I can also appreciate that some owners may not think so. We have completed the cylinder head development work and are currently developing a suitable camshaft combination, results to date are impressive. We will offer cams only or even a head only minus cams if that is desired, figures for all variations of tune will be made available. The cylinder heads are modified in a manner we believe that will be unique to Thunderbike prepared twins. Hope that clears things up and my apologies for any mis-understanding. Cheers Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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will that kit be for 790's? 865's or both? also please post price and performance numbers when you have them. i am sure ther will be a lot of interest. i know i am
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Well, i'm out. The email you guys sent me about a month ago certainly didn't seem to imply such radical engine mods. It seemed to suggest the work you were doing did not include anything so major. Maybe just miscommunication. In any case thats out of my league. Just the pipes.
However Graeme, i have a question for you. If i like the pipes but want more than they give me with stock jets and airbox, will the 865 speedy gain any more by rejetting and/or airbox mods? if so,can you elaborate a bit on what you think would give me the max power with the pipes? Jet size, what kind of air mods, etc?
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All testing that we have carried out to date has shown that once the pipes have been changed, with the std. head and cams (being the limiting factors) nothing has had any real impact worthy of mention. I have always felt that the 865 required top end attention to allow it to breathe even reasonably normally and nothing I have seen so far has changed this view. The restrictions are,in order (in our opinion) 1. Pipes 2. Cams 3. Ports 4. Airbox Improvements can be gained at any stage with an improvement in the compression and no doubt a carb change would have benefits depending on what stage the motor was at. Tweaking with needles, jets etc. may give a mild improvement but dont hold your breath. Cheers Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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Initially the upgrades will be for the 865, with further development 790 items will become available depending on demand. Thanks for asking. Regards Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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Well, thats rather disappointing. I wonder if i'd have been better off buying a used 790 SM! Are the 865 bonnies and thrux's also so poor to respond to things other than pipes jetting and airbox, or is it only the speedy 865 due to it's different cam?
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Dont be disheartened, once you have your pipes fitted you will notice a nice improvement in the quality of performance, the enjoyment of the ride and they`ll put a smile on your face. The 865 has a flatter torque curve than the 790 and this will show in a stronger "in gear roll on" response in the higher gears, whereas the 790 likes a downshift or 2 and some revs to really rock, the 865 will grunt. To answer your question, the Speedmaster is in a lower state of tune than the 865 360 twins ie. the Thruxton and T100. Cheers Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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Graeme,
Is it possible to remove the TB logo from the pipes?
Thanks, Hugh
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i think there will be more of a market for these upgrades to a 790 rather than an 865. but thats just an opinion. but these mods your working on wouldnt work with the 790?
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Hugh we could easily supply the pipes minus badges if you preferred them that way. The badge is a cast aluminium type and actually looks very nice, however you can easily order them minus the badges. Cheers Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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Hi Frank, You are right to say that these mods will work on a 790 as well and there are certainly more of them out there at the moment thats true. The 790 is an easy motor to unleash impressive gains with by simply adding our pipes, the 865 however is less so hence our attention to it. My point is that for the big gains in performance the 790 doesnt NEED it whereas the 865 kinda does for big improvements - and noticeable they are, watch this space.... Regards Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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thanx graeme, i already have your pipes and love them a lot. felt a huge different everywhere and my dealer who used to be a racer couldnt believe how fast the bike reved as he bounced it off the limiter very quickly. but if you guys had these head and cam mods as a price say cheaper then the total cost of a big bore and they produced say 10-20 more horse then i would be very interested in this rather then the big bore or use this with the big bore if there is still good gains to be had. not trying to be a pain in the a$$ just curious about this stuff and what effects it would have on the 790. ok i'll leave u aloen now hahhaa thanx for these great pipes and keep workin on this stuff for us
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Hi Frank, Glad to hear you are enjoying the pipes on your bike, great news, and yes they do rev a lot faster than before no question about that, just keep throwing gears at it! We will be very concious of any prices we present to the marketplace. Once we had a helping hand with our low currency valuation but over the last few years that has completely changed, so we fully understand your comments Frank. Thank you for your interesting comments and questions. Cheers Graeme www.Thunderbike.co.nz
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I've already got the pipes and they're nice but I would like the cleaner look without the badges. Is it possible to take them off once they're on?
Thanks, Hugh
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Quote:
The restrictions are,in order (in our opinion) 1. Pipes 2. Cams 3. Ports 4. Airbox
Thanks for passing that opinion along to us Graeme. I'm another satisfied TB muffler owner who appreciates the optimized scavenging they provide. I have been puzzled by the fascination with airbox mods when the valve lifts-durations-overlaps are the limiting factors with the 900's.
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Quote:
I have been puzzled by the fascination with airbox mods when the valve lifts-durations-overlaps are the limiting factors with the 900's
Don't be puzzled...it's really simple. Not everyone here understands engines well enough or at least don't know the cam in the 900 is the limiting factor. I suspected it because as far as i know thats the main if not only fifference between the 790 speedy and the 865. but i didn't know that it would render extra airflow useless.
So this brings me to another question . If the cam really is the bottlneck in this engine would a cam with NO bore kit make it possible to get the same percentage of performance boost out of the 865 as the 790 gets? If so, i might consider a cam down the road depending on hhow the pipes do by them selves. I'm not looking for loads more power, but i would like enough to make the bike run say 15% stronger. And i don't think the pipes will do that for the 865 from what i've heard. Also, if the can WILL make the engine respond to the pipes like the 790 does, will t also then allow the 865 to get more gains with airbox mods?
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does anyone have a close up pic of the TB logo? I'm about to order a set and it would be a great help to decide if I go with or without if I can view it first.
hmmm funny line to follow
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I'd say go w/o it even if it looks nice. Anything that shows they are aftermarket would be a red flag to any cop that stops you, and i'm sure some of them if not all make it a point to at least give a quick glance to see if they are aftermarket.
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just keep the logo on the pipes. looks just fine. not a cheap sticker or anything and it becomes another question for people to ask when they check out your bike  Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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I've never been stopped for loud pipes.....yet
I used to have a Yamahaha TRX850 with straight though pipes as well That was a loud bike, so loud infact I took them off because they were doing my nut in when I was riding over 100 miles at a time. I'm hoping that it will be a case of ocht its only a guy on a cruiser and they all have noisy cans from the police
hmmm funny line to follow
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Quote:
I've never been stopped for loud pipes.....yet
I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you get stopped for something else, speeding or whatever, i would think cops would sometimes look to see if your pipes are stock or maybe even ask. Not saying all cops, but i'm sure it does happen. How much and what states are the worse i dunno. But i do know that if there is some obvious logo that say's something other than "triumph" on your pipes and they see it while stopping you for something else, it can't be good. Put it this way, is a little aluiminum logo on your pipes worth having to remove them, go get it ok'd, then reinstall them? Personally i don't want one on my pipes for cosmetic reasons either, so for me they're a double whammy. I sent them an email asking if i can get a non-badged set instead of the backorder that i was waiting on. Unfortunatly they didn't get my email in time and sent them already, Wish i'd have known about the badges beforehand !
can someone tell me where they are located, how big they are, and if they can be removed?
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With all th loud Harleys running around I'm sure a ton of those guys get stopped for whatever. I have never heard of a cop telling them their pipes are too loud. And I am sure that these pipes do not resemble the sound of a Harley in any shape or form. Don't let it bother you Daz. Just put them on and enjoy. 
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger......and then it hit me.
'05 BA - Mulberry/Graphite,128 mains,42 pilots,TBS needles,drilled slides,debaffled stock pipes,Uni,no snorkel
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