Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge OT: cage advice?

Hello all,

My wife and I are in the market for a new car. I drive a full size GMC pickup and she a VW New Beetle. We find that we often need something that is a cross between the two. (30 mpg like the bug/storage like the truck.) We love the bug and are still surprised by how much it will haul, but as my 9 year old daughter has gotten bigger it seems to have gotten smaller.

So here's the question: Our #1 prospect on the list right now is a Ford Escape Hybrid. Anybody own one of these? Know anyone who has the hybrid version?

I'm just hoping for a few stories to confirm the good reviews that I find.

And no, I'm not considering getting a sidecar for the America although I can see where some would consider that a hybrid...

I have a Hyundai Santa Fe ~~ it's OK but doesn't get anywhere as good of gas mileage as it should. A couple who used to go to our church have the Escape Hybrid ~~ and they loved it. I saw Ford had a commercial on for the Hybrid Escape that mentioned a federal tax rebate of almost $2400 ~~ might be worth looking into.

I have a friend with a Toyota Prius. He's had it about a year and likes it.
I mention that because the Toyota Highlander hybrid is also very well reviewed. Roughly the same price as the Escape, which is reviewed pretty well too.

Honestly dude avoid the hybrids. Unless you live in a very urban area with a lot of stop and go you will not see a huge savings. Especially since they cost more than the base model.
I'm sick of the feel good hybrid buzz, there are smarter choices out there. My neighbor's just bought a prius for 25k and make around 35 mpg, my tdi for 21 makes 48 mpg. My uncle bought an Escape hybrid and makes about the same as my Mother's 4cyl stripped out Escape which cost 9k less.

What I was saying is there are other choices. VWs TDI are my favorite, power and economy but they haven't got the "hybrid feel good tree hugging support" ie even though they make better economy than just about all the hybrids we don't get a tax break.
And if you look at 4cly, manual models of vehicles you will see about the same mileage. The Escape base and the Escape hybrid use the same motor so buying one without the extra weight of the hybrid. My mother's escape usually gets low 30s.
Another friend just bought a base model Honda Civic (complete with crank windows). This little econo box gets high 30s and cost 11 out the door. She had figured out that gas would have to go above 5 a gallon before she would come out ahead on the hybrid model.

I've heard good things about the Dodge Caliber.

I hate my 2006 Subaru. It gets about 30 mpg and all wheel drive, but the dang throttle is jumpy on the low end. I accepted that it's ugly and hard to get in and out of it, but that throttle. They can't or won't fix it. I am stuck with it, because I can't afford to get out from under it. It will be paid for when I am 70 years old. Half the time you can't get into it if you use the security system.

Dave

Dude, my buddy's wife has a '03-04 Subaru Baja and it is a pain in the junk to get in and out of...

...and I have NO trouble with my VW Golf.

I've had a Honda Element for 3 years, great vehicle, reliable as a crowbar.
The rear seats fold up out of the way (or remove completely) and give you a big cargo area.
The 'utility' floor can be washed off if you spill something while hauling.
It actually has more headroom than an F-150!
In hindsight, I wish I would have gone for the 4-wheel drive and 5-speed, but the 4-speed auto and front-wheel drive is still a good combination.
Don't get the lowered version, better vision is one of the best things about the original.

If your looking for value in the Hybrid segment I have spoke to a few owners of Saturn Vue Hybrids and they have nothing but positive feedback. I don't know cost but apparantly they are very inexpensive.

Personally I side with BrianT. Honda Element.

Ceuls

Not iin the mix but I love my Jeep Liberty..2002 and 115 tho so far...
only 2wd, but even in Hawaii which is totally stop and go driving, I averaged 19.6. Out here in Texas, I'm averaging 22 +/- On a trip I get 25 or so, and the little old Jeepie is totally loaded... Even pulling a 10' covered bike trailer (pbly about 2000 lbs loaded with no trailer brakes) I get 15 mpg... and that's going from Ohio to Texas and Cali...and mostly into headwinds.
mary

if you love the beetle so much (my sister has one...), how bout a Golf 4 door? Or a Jetta Wagon? I've loved every VW myself or my fam has owned (learned to drive on an 85 Jetta, Then my dad got a 91 Passat Wagon, I had a 01 Jetta I sold to my dad when I got a company car, he still has it, and my sis has the beetle. All stick shift by the way... Most got better than 30 mpg, altho the Jetta is more like high 20s, VR6 and all...)

My first company car was a Liberty, I loved it! My wife misses it. Got about 20 MPG, was easy to park, could fit a lot, and go offroading! Best compromise between "real" SUV and crossover in my book. Most people who look at crossovers or car based SUVs like the Escape, Edge, Highlander, etc really just need a wagon.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

We do love the beetle. The new rig will be Katie's (my wife) daily driver (remember--our most recent set of wheels is the bike) and what we drive to all of my daughter's activities. We plan to keep the beetle for me to commute and pretty well park the truck.

Since it will be Katie's drive, she gets more votes. Her first choice is actually the VW Toureg, but they are pricey. 2nd to that is the GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook--nice rig, but again pricey and neither of these will get much better mileage than my truck. My sister has a Liberty and both she & I like it, but again not much better mpg. The Saturn Vue isn't big enough in the front seat shoulder area.

The beetle is a stick, but Katie's knees beg for an automatic now. Here is her list: 1. sit up higher 2. as much as I try I can't convince her to look at TDI's 3. not a wagon (neither of us has ever owned anything with 4 doors) 4. better mpg 5. moderate storage/hauling space 6. and remember that you are talking to someone who owns a Triumph--I'm not looking for the Yamaha/Star Roadwhatever of the car world

So that's the path that has led me to the hybrid escape.

Thank you for not suggesting a van. One of my college buddies and I made a wager that the first one of us who bought a van would owe the other $100. Ha!

Why not a TDI?
Less maintence, I do a fuel filter every 20K and oil change 7k.
Yes less stations have diesel but thats changing, plus when you get 700 miles a tank it doesn't matter.
And the resale is laughable. Go look at a used TDi at a dealership, 100k miles and they will want 17 or 18 on a car that cost 21 not bad.
The glow plugs cylce in almost the same time it takes to turn the key. Low smoke and in your neck of woods the winter mix should keeping gelling issues away.

The car you are looking for doesnt exist without 4 doors... People have WAY too much of a stigma against wagons. A ford escape is a wagon... Just sits higher. Not that its a bad choice, but hey, why not? Plus, the whole "wagons=soccer mom" thing is WAY overshadowed by the "SUV=soccer mom" thing nowadays if you ask me! I think you really need to DRIVE a few of these before you get too narrow with your search. At least go drive a jetta or passat wagon to get a feel for it. Then you can decide on TDI or whatever. You'll never get great gas milage with any of those bigger yutes... Just not possible!

Thanks again guys. Benny: yeah, I hear you. We're not opposed to 4 doors now, I just still see myself in my 1970 LeMans Sport, ya know?

We've driven: Escape, Liberty, Jetta, Toureg, Acadia and FJ Cruiser. Also looked at: Edge, Passat, Volvo V50/XC70, Highlander, and other GM small SUV's on a car chassis.

In our case it is small SUV=ice skating/ballet mom. And yes she knows that. I have been working on Katie about a TDI since we got the beetle, but to be honest, we all have to pick our battles, right? I see the handwriting in Europe about the merits of TDI, but I'm also not going to create too much conflict over this issue...

We also want something that's comfortable for us now, but will be safe and won't be too much car to turn over to my daughter to use in 7 years. (She's 9 now.)

I think we're headed to get a non-hybrid Escape this weekend. I'll let you know how it turns out.

John, I'm glad you guys are test driving so many things!! It's good. I got thrown into the Liberty because it was a company car (it was that or a Caravan...). So for me it was a kinda "learn to love it" thing, turned out well. I also hear you about picking battles.... I'd LOVE to get a little family car with a stick shift, but my wife doesn't do it. She said she would try to learn but I would have to sign something saying I wouldn't leave her if I try to teach her Funny how it's hard to teach teachers... There's so many nice little cars out there nowadays, but oh well...

Ed, my dad loved his Passat too, on the other hand, my buddy Tom grew to not like his so much cause it seemed like he was spending a lot every time he took it into the shop. Personally, I think he let a noise in the front end go too long and it ended up worse than it had to, but oh well... He's a Camry driver now

I looked at some of the VW Jetta diesels before they skipped a year. The stickers were around 43mpg. Not bad.

I've have been interested in the Escpae Hybrid also. It is rated at 34mpg but as oldroadie said the actual mileage is usually alot lower. There was an article in Consumer reports a few months ago about actual mpg on Hybrids not matching the EPA stickers. I researced the availability of the Escape Hybrid in my area and dealers only get about 1 at a time and some are marking them up several thousand dollars. Not good.

for the extra money you spend its not worth it. this has been proven many times. plus those batteries dont last forever and are pretty expensive. and if you say the extra money is worth saving the enviornment then what do you do with the old batteries?

Frank

Scion Xb,the big wagon looking one.Test drove one.Upside down in the wifes Highlander or we would have one.It has the same 2.4 four cylinder and automatic as the Highlander in a smaller lighter package.We drove it ,it has a nice ride and moves good.Best part is it is a normal engine with vaiable valves and I believe it is rated at 27mpg..Also the seats fold down etc. Fun vehicle to drive compared to the Highlander grocery getter.It is also fairly loaded at a fair starting price.The one we looked at was $17,300.If you don't mind the looks on the outside,nice vehicle.It is reworked from the old tiny box it use to be when they first came out.I guess you could also buy the new Touring RocketIII instead with a sidecare and a trailer.