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Shell Rotella T Question?
#201631 09/12/2007 6:30 AM
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Iceman Offline OP
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I'm thinking of switching to Shell Rotella T in my 05 America and was wondering if Anyone here was using it? If they had any feedback on it.

Thanks


05 TBA Mulberry/Silver, Thunder Bike pipes, K&N single Filter, 132 main Jet's, Snorkles Removed
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Iceman #201632 09/12/2007 6:46 AM
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I've been using it since 2004 with no issues. I know Dinqua uses it and several others on the site use it and none of us have had any issues with it as far as I know.


Live Free or Die Velvet
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Fishercat #201633 09/12/2007 8:19 AM
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I use it and it has been great!


THE VOICE OF REASON per: Stewart AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster 130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
RobBA05 #201634 09/12/2007 8:50 AM
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Like Uncle Charlie says if something has the Dinqua seal of approval its good enough for the rest of us mortals. I have been using the Dealership free oil change plan. I wouldn't recommend this to everyone else though. It requires a lot of downtime and warranty work.

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Dill #201635 09/12/2007 9:26 AM
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Been using it since first oil change. Can't beat it and costs only $16 at local WalMart.
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"I live the life I love and I love the life I live."
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
XHD #201636 09/12/2007 1:10 PM
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I wouldn't put that in my lawn mower.


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Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201637 09/12/2007 2:02 PM
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A little light reading for those who have their "opinions" from Mike Guillory...a man who made his living as a chemist for the oil industry and has several degrees in the petro chemical specialtiy...

note his opinion of the "not suitable for lawn mowers" oil...

It should be noted that I copied this without permission from www.VFRworld.com


Motorcycle Motor Oil
by Mike Guillory


This article was written by Mike Guillory. I think it offers an excellent perspective and discussion on oil! It certainly has helped to shape my opinion on this complex subject.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brief Introduction

Along with keeping things adjusted properly, using a good quality motor oil and changing it regularly is the key ingredient to keeping your motorcycle running happily for a long time. You cannot go wrong using one of the various "motorcycle-specific" oils, now available also from some of the major oil companies. However, many motorcyclists object to the higher prices of those oils and for convenience prefer to buy oil at their local automotive supply store, which is a still a good option. This article will provide you with information to make an informed choice.

Price of Motor Oil

So how do you make an intelligent choice? Will $1.00 a quart automotive oil work okay or do you need to pay $4 to $12 a quart for "motorcycle" oil? You have to answer that question yourself, but here are a few facts to help you make the best decision for your situation.

The owner's manual of your motorcycle probably says something very similar to the following:


Use only high detergent, premium quality motor oil certified to meet API Service Classification SF or SG (shown on container). The use of additives is unnecessary and will only increase operating expenses. Do not use oils with graphite or molybdenum additives as they may adversely affect clutch operation." That's pretty clear. But what do you do since automotive oils now say on the container "meets SL Service?" That's easy! By consensus of the API and the manufacturers, the current SL classification meet all requirements of SF, SG, SH, and SJ plus all earlier API gasoline categories. The current SL actually offers some additional benefits over the older classifications. So, if the motorcycle requirement says "SG", be confident that "SL" indeed meets that requirement.
The Vanishing Zinc and Phosphorous

It is a fact than many SL oils now contain lower levels of ZDDP (the zinc/phosphorous extreme pressure additive) and that is a big concern to a lot of motorcyclists. ZDDP is a last resort protection against metal-to-metal contact. Whereas a few years ago the zinc level was typically 0.12% to 0.15% in SG automobile oils, some SL oils now have as little as 0.05%. However, this in itself may not be a problem since normal operation of a motorcycle on the street would never result in metal-to-metal contact any more than it would in your automobile. Remember these SL oils meet the most demanding protection requirements of modern, high-reving, powerful 4-stroke automobile engines (among others). And there is no reason to believe the lubrication requirements of street motorcycles is measurably different.

However, if you race you probably need higher levels of ZDDP and should use appropriate oils or ZDDP additives.

NEW Motorcycle Oils

Seeing an opportunity to bridge this perceived gap between motorcycle oils and automotive oils, many traditional oil marketers like Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, Quaker State, and Valvoline now sell their own "motorcycle" oils at very competitive prices, and alongside their automotive oils. I have found them at several of my local autoparts stores and even at one WalMart store. Call or visit the auto supply stores in your area and ask. Even if they don't routinely stock them, they probably can order a case for you at substantial savings because their mark-up is generally quite a bit less than motorcycle shops.

Although not a motorcycle oil, oils with the designation "Racing Oil" are not intended for street use, generally meets "SG" requirements and has somewhat higher levels of additives, like ZDDP. An example is Valvoline's VR1 Racing oil available in 20w50 weight. These should work fine in our motorcycles.

Energy-Conserving Oils

Some are concerned that the new "energy-conserving" motor oils may have "friction modifiers" which will cause clutch slippage. Since that is a legitimate concern it is best to use only oils which are NOT "energy-conserving for motorcycles with wet clutches." Read the back of the container. It clearly identifies this. In general, only the very lighter oils, like 10w30, 10w20, 5w20, are energy-conserving. All 5w40, 5w50, 10w40, 15w40, 15w50, and 20w50 oils which I have found are not energy-conserving and can be recommended for general motorcycle use.

It is commonly mis-stated that "SJ and SL oils have friction modifiers which will cause wet clutch slippage." In reality, all oils have friction modifiers, that's how they work. ZDDP itself is a friction modifier. The real issue is to avoid getting the friction so low, with very thin oils containing extra amounts of friction modifiers, that clutches will slip under normal use. Stay away from energy conserving oils and you should be fine, if your clutch is in good working order.

Synthetic or Conventional

What about synthetic vs. semi-synthetic vs. "dino" oils? All motor oils have several special additives formulated into the oil to protect from corrosion and wear, plus detergents to keep combustion products in the oil. For normal (non-extreme) use, "dino" oils protect as well as the synthetic oils. However, if you plan to race, run at extremely high temperatures, or plan to extend oil-change intervals, or simply want the best, then a synthetic or semi-synthetic may be your best choice.

Real World Test Results

Are there any "real world" examples of long motorcycle engine life using automotive oils? There is a good one in the June 1996 issue of Sport Rider magazine in a report called the "100,000 mile Honda CBR900RR." The owner used conventional Castrol GTX oil, 10W40 in the winter, 20W50 in the summer. He changed it every 4,000 miles, changing the filter every OTHER oil change. No valve clearance adjustments were required after the initial one at 16,000 miles. And a dyno test against the same model with only 6,722 miles showed torque and horsepower virtually identical. The 100,000 mile bike was even used for some racing. In a subsequent follow-up, the same CBR had passed 200,000 miles and was still going strong! Plus, many motorcyclists have emailed me with their very positive results using nothing but automotive oils for years in a variety of rides. Oils have changed over the past 10 years, but that just means we need to be more careful in our choices.

Frequency Asked Questions

What is a reasonable oil-change interval?

Most manuals recommend not to exceed 8,000 miles after break-in. But short-trip riding is considered severe service and the most common oil change interval is 3,000 to 4,000 miles. However, a long trip is the easiest service for the oil and going 6,000 to 8,000 miles between changes while on a cross-country ride is routine. Also, the use of synthetic oils can easily double the oil-change interval.


Will changing the oil even more frequently, like every 1,000 miles, prolong the life of the engine?

Not very likely, because even at 3,000 to 4,000 miles, the oil and additives are not degraded very much. Changing more often just wastes money.


What about the claims that motorcycle-specific oils contain "special polymers which are resistant to breakdown caused by motorcycle transmissions?

Oils usually require the addition of polymers, called VI improvers, to create a multi-viscosity oil, like 10W-40. Whether it is a motorcycle oil or an automotive oil, all polymers are subject to some degradation in the transmission. Full synthetic oils tend to have less polymer than conventional oils and therefore degrade less.


Why are motorcycle oils so much more expensive than automotive oils?

Cost of doing business is higher per quart of motorcycle oil. Large oil companies make so much more product that their profit margin per quart does not have to be so high. That's why the newer motorcycle oils being marketed by some oil companies are only marginally more expensive than their automotive counterparts.


What about the claims by specialty motorcycle oil manufacturers, that their oil is better?

That's a good one. Next time you hear that line, simply ask, "What evidence do you have?" I've never seen any. If you do get any, please let me know! I don't believe that there is any.
Now, armed with all this information, you are ready to make your choice between automotive oil and motorcycle oil. Either will work fine. Your motorcycle probably cannot tell any difference. There are many riders, the author included, who use nothing but good quality automotive motor oils. There also are many who use nothing but motorcycle oils. All indications are that both choices work equally well because motorcycle engines are designed so well that the oil really doesn't make any measurable difference. As long as it meets SG, SH, SJ, or SL service requirements.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Addendum
In the past several years, various reports went around regarding independent studies that showed "automotive" oils that are not energy-conserving (EC) work just as well as motorcycle-specific oil and in many cases better. In former revisions to this article I listed the oils I found locally (Houston, Tx) that were 10w40 and heavier and not energy-conserving. I've discontinued that as it adds little value. All one needs to do is look at the back of the oil container where the lower half of the identification circle will have the words "energy conserving" if it is. Don't use those in wet clutch motorcycle applications, as they may cause clutch slippage. If the lower half of that circle is blank, as all 10w40 and heavier oils should, that means it is NOT energy conserving and should be fine in wet clutch applications.

Heavy-Duty Oils

My favorite oils and the ones I most mostly recommend for motorcycle use, are the "heavy-duty" oils. They are commonly misunderstood, and often referred to as "diesel oils." They are NOT energy conserving, have higher zinc levels, as high as 0.16%, and by virtue of their multi-duty have a better engine protection package than an oil that is only rated "SL". These heavy-duty oils are rated SJ or SL, plus CH-4. They are currently closer in formulation to the motorcycle specific oils and to the "SG" oils that many motorcycle makers recommend. Following are some examples of these oils, generally 15w40 oils by industry convention. There may be several other 15w40 oils that I am not familiar with.

Castrol RX Super 15w40
Chevron Delo 400 15w40
Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40
Pennzoil Long-Life 15w40
Quaker State 4X4 Synthetic Blend 15w40
Shell Rotella-T 15w40 (my personal favorite)
SuperTech 2000 (WalMart) 15w40
Valvoline All Fleet 15w40
Castrol Syntec Blend Truck and 4X4 15w40
Full Synthetics - for Maximum Protection
For years Mobil One 15w50 has been a favorite of motorcyclists. In recent years it has gone from its original formulation to an improved SJ "TriSynthetic", and more recently as SL "SuperSyn." several of us have received conflicting information on this new "flavor" of Mobil One, but the consensus appears to be that the new SuperSyn has additional friction modifiers and may no longer be a good choice for motorcycles. However, I have heard from several VFR owners still using it with favorable results. Therefore, YMMV. Mobil naturally recommends their motorcycle Mobil One.

A fairly new player in the synthetic market is Shell with Rotella-T Full Synthetic 5w40. It is not energy-conserving and according to Shell performs competitively with Mobil Delvac One full synthtetic, which means it offers even more protection than does Mobil One 15w50. A number of motorcyclists have reported to me good results so far with his use of the new Synthetic Rotella-T. I put it in my own VFR at my last oil change.

Delvac One should be an excellent motorcycle oil but is generally available only at truck stops or in commercial quantities. For those who may have connections with a long-haul trucking operation, where Delvac One is known to be used in oil change intervals up to 150,000 miles, or even more, you may want to try it if the price is right.

There are a number of other synthetic and semi-synthetic oils available and I have no reason to believe they are in any way inferior. Just follow the advice and use one which is not energy conserving.

Important Note: Be sure and use the recommended viscosity range, e.g. 10w40, 20w50, etc. for the climate in your area. In general, to protect your motor use the heaviest oil you can that still meets the manufacturer's guidelines. For example, 20w50 is better in warm weather than 10w40, because it gives you a thicker oil cushion between bearing surfaces at operating temperature. For racing, a thinner oil will offer less resistance and thus more power, but will offer less protection.

I personally believe in these oils and use nothing else in my motorcycles. As always, you have to make your own, informed decisions.

A Note on Warranties

Since it is generally accepted within the industry that current classifications also meet all older ones, there can legally be no warranty issue. In fact, some oils actually say on the package "SG" in addition to SH , SJ and SL. However, if any of the very newest motorcycles specify oil meeting the new JASO, or other motorcycle-specific oil specifications, and no reference to "SG" or similar automotive specs, then you may have a potential warranty issue so behave accordingly.

And finally, it is gratifying to have received so many emails the past three (3) years from motorcyclists finding this oil and oil filter information useful to them. Keep them coming. I am happy to help, and I plan further updates as things change significantly. Please refer to Oil Filter Alternatives - Honda Motorcycles also by Mike Guillory for a comprehensive review of various oil filters.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web Master's Note
The author is a Chemist, retired from a major Oil and Chemical Company, after a career in the Quality Assurance of Fuels, Lubricants, and Chemical products. He and his wife both ride.


THE VOICE OF REASON per: Stewart AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster 130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
RobBA05 #201638 09/12/2007 5:29 PM
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He may be a veteran petrochemist, but what does he know about lawnmowers?

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
RobBA05 #201639 09/12/2007 5:38 PM
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Excellent post.....informative and gives me an even better sense of security in using the Shell Rotella 5w-40


"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
clanrickarde #201640 09/12/2007 6:52 PM
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My opinion is unchanged.


I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201641 09/12/2007 7:10 PM
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I have used it the last three oil changes and I intend to change the oil every 3 to 4 thousand miles. I simply view it as a cost effective alternative that seems to be backed by adequate technical jargon and by other users to the extent that I remain .......comfortable.


"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
clanrickarde #201642 09/12/2007 7:14 PM
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I have been using Mobile 1 4XMT 10W-40.It has performed really well.Especially during the really hot spells in the 90's.I get it at Auto zone for around $7 quart.BTW Walmart sells filters for our bikes now.

Hope this helps

Pete


03 Blue and Silver, AI removed,Thunderbike Pipes,132 mains,45 pilots,snorkles gone,k+n, 2 3/4 idle screws
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The_Dog33 #201643 09/12/2007 7:59 PM
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Thanks for the post... It was a very interesting and informative article that answers many of my questions about motorcycle engine lubrication....

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201644 09/12/2007 8:10 PM
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Quote:

My opinion is unchanged.




Find those test results yet?


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Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201645 09/12/2007 8:51 PM
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Quote:

My opinion is unchanged.




Tell us why so we can learn

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Fishercat #201646 09/12/2007 9:03 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

My opinion is unchanged.




Find those test results yet?




You were told above to go find it yourself. Should everyone have to prove their statements? What's this world coming to?



03 Red/Black Speedmaster
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Patriot #201647 09/13/2007 4:58 AM
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Hey I googled this link. It took me a while to find an independant none Amsoil article and test. Guess what they recommend?

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html


Live Free or Die Velvet
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Fishercat #201648 09/13/2007 6:50 AM
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A little off topic, (and a bit dated) but an interesting excerpt for those obsessed with the subject of engine oils:

A 4.5 million mile NYC Taxicab oil test
as performed by Consumer Reports, a publication that accepts no influence of advertising. I don't believe they always talk the Gospel, but their hearts are in the right place when it comes to offering information.

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Bucky #201649 09/13/2007 7:24 AM
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Quote:

A little off topic, (and a bit dated) but an interesting excerpt for those obsessed with the subject of engine oils:

A 4.5 million mile NYC Taxicab oil test
as performed by Consumer Reports, a publication that accepts no influence of advertising. I don't believe they always talk the Gospel, but their hearts are in the right place when it comes to offering information.




I saw that one and it's a pretty interesting test. It seems to say that automobile oil viscosity held up just as good as oil formulated for motorcycles. However, it did say the auto oils lacked the zinc and phosphous anti-wear ingredients because of auto emmissions standards.

Another reason Rotella T synthetic is a good choice. It's formulated for diesel engineers, thus, it still has high levels of zinc and phosphous. It also has a very low pour temp which is great for cold starts. a lot of wear happens at start-up.


Live Free or Die Velvet
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Fishercat #201650 09/13/2007 7:42 AM
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What struck me back when it was first published was how the oils were testing out to be in good shape at up to 7,500 miles. When you consider the amount of fuel dilution and low oil pressure engine wear an idling taxi must incur...

The other finding of interest was that ALL the magic snake oil in a bottle miracle additives (for instance, "Slick 50") did absolutely nothing to prolong engine life.

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
Fishercat #201651 09/13/2007 10:49 AM
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Quote:

Hey I googled this link. It took me a while to find an independant none Amsoil article and test. Guess what they recommend?

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html




Well......even more reason to be perfectly happy with Shell Rotella T.

Wally world is GOOD for something.


"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
clanrickarde #201652 09/13/2007 12:25 PM
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I have been sick since I got back from the Franklin Inst. I have hardly been on here and didn't feel like looking for the tests. I will when I feel like it. I have sent the pages I am talking about to several different members who had asked me about it in the past. To be honest I am getting tired of looking up those oil testing pages when I am doing other things too just to prove a point. I don't need to prove anything, however like Bucky said I have no problem trying to find it again when I get a chance for learning purposes.


I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201653 09/13/2007 12:36 PM
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I have to laugh there is a show on History channel right now talking about oils and they are showing Amsoil right now.

I also have to say I am having a tough time finding a good comparison chart that isn't done by Amsoil now. I found a couple like one done by Penzoil but it didn't include Amsoil.I am still not feeling very well and am going to give up the search soon.


I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201654 09/13/2007 1:08 PM
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I have been searching and so far I found a Castrol and Penzoil as well as a couple others but those tests didn't include Amsoil. I have also noticed a couple of the pages that I thought were not done by Amsoil are the same pages and graphs but don't say anything about Amsoil being the source. But to me it looks obvious that it is the same tests just on a different header. So I am finished looking and am going to go lay down again. My opinion of Rotella wouldn't change anyway. There are many other oils I would use before Rotella.


I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201655 09/13/2007 1:17 PM
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Quote:

My opinion of Rotella wouldn't change anyway. There are many other oils I would use before Rotella.




That's it! I'm selling my Shell stock!

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
The_Dog33 #201656 09/13/2007 5:10 PM
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No oil manufacturer publishes all the API test results for all their oils with the exception of Amsoil. So why is that, can’t they afford to? Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline and Shell (to name just a few) all spend in excess of 1 million dollars a week in advertising, so I am sure they can afford to list all the API test results on their websites. Or is it just easier for them to spend money on hype than substance.

You do not have to believe Amsoils test results as fact, but understand all the major oil companies do! In the last 20 years every major oil company has sued pretty much all the other oil companies over unsubstantial claims, with only one exception. You guessed it, only Amsoil has not been sued by any of the other oil companies. Why is that, could it be because what they are publishing is correct, and the other oil companies already know it. If Mobil can spend over 50 million a year advertising their oils I am sure they would spend several hundred thousand to sue Amsoil, if they thought there was a real basis for actually suing.

Amsoil has performed numerous fleet test studies over the years. All showing reduced wear, better gas mileage, reduced cost to fleet and on and on. If you are looking for another oil company to do this kind of study and publish it, then you are going to be waiting a very long time. Also all the other oil companies want you, as the consumer, to change your oil and change it often. Not to run it at extended intervals. Almost all the oils Amsoil makes have a 25,000 miles or one year warranty. With oil analysis they will extend the warranty to 100,000 miles. The oil for our bikes is rated at twice the manufacturers change interval or 1 year.

Only Amsoil so far is willing to put up real test results (lab and real world) without all the hype. Bashing Amsoil because they are willing to do something none of the other oil companies are is the wrong approach. Go ask Mobil, Shell or who evers oil you use for their API test results and see what kind of response you get.

Bottom line, it is your vehicle, your time and your money to spend. If you think XYZ oil is great then buy and use it. There isn’t a synthetic oil on the market today that isn’t at least 3 times better than the oils sold 20 years ago.


Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
tcv #201657 09/13/2007 6:42 PM
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Hey dog33 never mind the oil get well soon !!

Re: Shell Rotella T Question?
revnd #201658 09/13/2007 6:59 PM
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Thanx ,I am feeling much better at the moment. Still not 100% but I think I will be by tomorrow morning after some rest tonight.

Thanx tcv I didn't know that , but it does explain why I was having such a hard time finding other test results and the few I did find didn't include Amsoil or Mobil for that matter.


I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!

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