 how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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I don't want to run synthetic oil in my america anymore,, not sure if I can just drain and change but unless thats the case do need to flush the motor with clean oil and drain again to go to straight non-syn oil..
thanks for any advice.
don't wait for other people, Just do it!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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synthetic oil is compatible with dino oil, so you could just drain, change filter and refill. however, I am not sure its a good move. and you will definitely need to change it about twice as often, as well
G
I never wanted to lead, and I never wanted to follow.
I just wanted to ride.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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I would say don’t do it. These engines are designed for the fully synthetic oil. By using a non synthetic oil you will have more wear on your cylinders and engine parts. Also by using an oil that is not recommended, you will probably void any warrantee you have on the bike. 
"It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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I change my oil only once a year and under 6000 miles/year on the bike. With the synthetic, there are no worries with changing only once a year. It doesn't break down like regular oil and actually works better. I'll go along with the others that asked, why switch?
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I wouldn't do it either,it isn't worth the small savings in money short term because I believe it will cost you big in the long term.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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I have run full synthetic Triumph oil in ever America, SM and Bonny series bikes I have had..I always changed at 3000 miles. I have a new Scrambler that I now run semi-synthetic oil in (Triumph). In fact I changed it at 600 miles and again today at 3000 miles and it was pretty dirty. I do have to say that this is the smoothest shifting, smoothest running and gets the best mileage I have ever gotten of the various bike I have had of the new twin line. I will stay with semi-synthetic from now on and I will always change at 3000 miles. I have been running a pretty steady 50 mpg with an occasional increase to 52-53 mpg and I do ride pretty hard in the upper rev range most of the time.
I for one, do not see any benefit to full synthetic.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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STOP - Only use a synthetic oil. Using a NON synthetic oil will cause the viscosity to change rapidly in the Triumph engine. Non synthetic MULTI GRADE oils have viscosity modifiers that break down when subjected to "choppers" such as gear trains in our transmissions. The 15W-40 will rapidly become a 15W only which will not give enough protection to the main and rod bearings resulting in ^&&$#@!$$! (Big mess). Synthetics do not have this problem.
That's why they are needed in our engine/transmissions. If we had a separate transmission which used a gear type oil, then a non synthetic oil could be used in the engine proper.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Now stanley this is a fine mess we are in
I have tried most of the different types of oils in my 03 speedie (27,000 ks)including sythetics and semi synthetics but for me and my bike diesel 20-50 is the best. I think in america lots of bikes use shell Rotella which started out as a diesel oil.
I now change my oil and filter every 7500 ks or once a year. I supose its horses for courses but my gear box is so sweet and the engine so quiet I would not use anything else.
Good riding what ever you choose
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Gregger, you lost me bud. These motors are not different than their ancestors when it comes to air cooled motors. They can run real oil.
I agree that I don't understand why, but I would say, you can simply by changing the oil to a straight 40W.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Gregger, you lost me bud. These motors are not different than their ancestors when it comes to air cooled motors. They can run real oil.
I agree that I don't understand why, but I would say, you can simply by changing the oil to a straight 40W.
I agree, you can run any oil in these engines but only on condition.
Oil basics 101 - If you run a synthetic or semi synthetic oil you can follow the normal oil change schedules, even go beyond, but (in a Triumph) if you run regular parafin based multigrade oil, you will need to change it out much more often than Triumph recomends because it won't keep it's viscosity for long. Viscosity is the key to engine life. Now, if you run a mono grade non synthetic such as straight 40W, you won't have any problems so long as you drive in warm weather (reason for multi grade is for cold start ability). A straight 40w would run fine because its viscosity isn't enhanced with modifiers and as such, won't break down. For example, a 4 stroke Detroit diesel runs on 15W40 oil for thousands of hours. It's oil is subject to compression in the bearings and minimual shear. A 2 stroke Detroit diesel needs to run on straight 40W because the multi grade oil would break down causing premature engine wear due to the high shear application (rings moving across the transfer ports in the cylinders chopping the oil, thinning it out, similar to our gears meshing in the transmissions).
Now if I haven't totally confused you we progress to engine type. There is a difference. Some engines include the transmission (like the Triumph) and share a common oil sump and oil. They need an oil that is suited to both extremes, compression in the bearings, and shear in the gears. Synthetics provide this. Other engines have a separate transmission like my former BSA. The transmission was filled with straight 90W gear oil. The engine filled with standard motor oil with no problems.
Hope I haven't totally confused the matter. If so....er...trust me... 
Oh yah, forgot to mention, you can mix a standard oil and a typical synthetic (semisynthetic) so flushing the engine isn't required.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Thanks, I thought you were saying you can't do it.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
I for one, do not see any benefit to full synthetic.
Same here. Per "my mech's" recommendation I run Mobil semi-synthetic, and have noticed a smoother engine with less rattling noise than before. Will stick to this for sure. My 2c...
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
but for me and my bike diesel 20-50 is the best.
But is it synthetic?
Soren
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I believe due to the shear forces in the circut our oils take that using dino oil will probably shorten the life of your engine. I don't know this from experience but it makes sence. Loss of viscocity = more wear.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Learned Hand
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One of the biggest problems with petroleum oil is that it has a much higher volatility rating than say a good synthetic. The volatility rating of an oil is the measured rate that it evaporates at. Since petroleum oils have waxes and other impurities the volatility of an oil has a direct effect on the oils ability to maintain its viscosity. So with a petroleum oil in a air cooled engine versus a good synthetic you will need to change the oil approximately 4 to 8 times more often to maintain the same wear and cleanliness of the internal parts.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I believe due to the shear forces in the circut our oils take that using dino oil will probably shorten the life of your engine. I don't know this from experience but it makes sence. Loss of viscocity = more wear.
That's what I was trying to say
12 Rocket Roadster
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69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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I know you guys are going to hate me but basicly I'm taking the speedmaster off the road and I don't want to spend $70.00 for 4-quarts of oil,,, the bike is at 4900 miles and I haven't been riding it much but it should get a oil change (and 5000 mile inspection) at 5000.
I see what you mean about the engine and tranny connected but as far as the synthetic thats in there now can it just sit in there and still be okay in a couple years if I don't start the bike?
don't wait for other people, Just do it!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well it would be better than the dino oil sitting in there since the syn. is much more stable.
EDIT: Stable might have been the wrong term I was speaking to the dino being acidic.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Quote:
I see what you mean about the engine and tranny connected but as far as the synthetic thats in there now can it just sit in there and still be okay in a couple years if I don't start the bike?
For storage you need a thicker oil that will stay on the internal parts and protect them. I would probably use this: aeroshell or at least a straight 50-weight oil.
2006 TBA
2002 Corvette Z06
1991 Mercedes 300E
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
I know you guys are going to hate me but basicly I'm taking the speedmaster off the road and I don't want to spend $70.00 for 4-quarts of oil,,, the bike is at 4900 miles and I haven't been riding it much but it should get a oil change (and 5000 mile inspection) at 5000.
I see what you mean about the engine and tranny connected but as far as the synthetic thats in there now can it just sit in there and still be okay in a couple years if I don't start the bike?
No. Conventional oils are acidic. Thats the least desirable thing you would do. If you are looking at long term storage, use full synthetic (a good brand like Mobile, Amsiol, Redline, Lucas) and a storage fogging oil. don't forget the fuel stabilizer or you'll be rebuilding carbs, too.
To answer your original post question: If you were running a quality full synth oil, most are completely compatible with a conventional oil.
Don't cheap out. It'll cost you more in the long run.
I should tell you I'm an Amsoil dealer. I'm not selling anything here- just giving advice. You are welcome to PM me for more info. Fast Eddy sells the stuff on his site, I'm not trying to muscle in- just help you out.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Synthetic oil is the best thing to come down the pike in recent years for smaller engines. For all of you with short memories: The older harley's & Triumphs that had 10,000 miles on them were rare in the 60's and 70's. I mean the ones that didn't have any internal work done on them yet. Today, it's common for these engines to have 50,000 & over on them. Full Synthetic
jerry
2005 America, Green, Thunderbike exhaust
LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE HE** OUT OF THE WAY!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Nah I used to get 30,000 give or take on a top end then bore it new pistons and rings and good for anther 30,000. Do that 3 or 4 times then have to rebuild. As long as the top end was done before anything broke.I left out valve guides and grind valves back in (lapping in most cases sometimes recut).
Last edited by The_Dog33; 09/08/2007 11:36 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I know you guys are going to hate me but basicly I'm taking the speedmaster off the road and I don't want to spend $70.00 for 4-quarts of oil,,, the bike is at 4900 miles and I haven't been riding it much but it should get a oil change (and 5000 mile inspection) at 5000.
I see what you mean about the engine and tranny connected but as far as the synthetic thats in there now can it just sit in there and still be okay in a couple years if I don't start the bike?
A couple of years is a long time. I would remove the oil that's been in there. Why - because of the acids that have accumulated and the resulting corrosion that could result. If you are worried about spending $70 to let your engine sit, then fill the unit with cheap motor oil, run it for a few miles before storing. Also, fog the engine (idle engine with filter out and spray engine fogging oil into intake until engine smokes out exhaust). This will help prevent corrosion from forming in the cylinders. Just make sure you drain and fill with recommended synthetic or semi synthetic when coming out of storage.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I know you guys are going to hate me but basicly I'm taking the speedmaster off the road and I don't want to spend $70.00 for 4-quarts of oil,,, the bike is at 4900 miles and I haven't been riding it much but it should get a oil change (and 5000 mile inspection) at 5000.
I see what you mean about the engine and tranny connected but as far as the synthetic thats in there now can it just sit in there and still be okay in a couple years if I don't start the bike?
Dude,
Just buy Rotella synthetic 5W-40W at Walmart for $15/gal and a Pureone oil filter. The whole oil change will be $20. A bunch of us have been running Rotella for years with no problems at all. Some of the folks have even sent the oil out for analysis and it received very high marks.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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If you look at independant testing Rotella doesn't even come close to Amsoil or Mobil.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
If you look at independant testing Rotella doesn't even come close to Amsoil or Mobil.
I've seen the so called independant test and it's suspect. It was sponsored by Amsoil. I don't want to get into an oil debate. All I can tell you is that the Rotella Type 2 Hydro Synthetic is fine for use in our bikes. It's a low ash oil with no additives and that provides very good protection at startup. Oil experts will tell you the most important thing is to have clean oil and to change often. If price is important then Rotella is the oil to use. If you don't care about cost then buy Mobil 1 or Amsoil.
Jeff,
Thanks for your e-mail. I know right away which charts you are referring to. They’re the ones titled "WEAR PROTECTION", ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" on Amsoil’s web site on their motorcycle oil page. These charts also appear on their cartons, brochures and sales literature.
I've posted their charts below:
http://www.spectro-oils.com/letters.htm
The "Four Ball" Wear Test ASTM D 4172 sounds like a very cool way of knowing which oil is going to protect your motorcycle against wear the best. The only problem is that this test is designed to be used for sliding surface wear lubricating fluids, like differential hypoid gear oils according to the ASTM. The CEO of Amsoil, Mr. A.J. Amatuzio, wrote several of those articles promoting that graph as an instrument to show Amsoil as a superior oil, and he knows very well that the ASTM D 4172 is designed as a sliding surface gear and pinion wear test for differential gear scarring. Amsoil’s use of such a test and their choice of using our racing oil to compare with other motorcycle oils to fool their customers is bordering on irresponsible and certainly unfair to the other oil brands mentioned. He is banking on the fact that most people will be fooled and will be unaware that this test is for a different use. Normally, I never would respond to these type of "Snake Oil Salesman" tactics but, since Spectro is specifically mentioned in Amsoil’s promotional and advertising material, along with the Harley oil, I feel compelled to respond to this charade.
First, I am curious as to why Amsoil chose to put the Spectro SPL Racing oil 5w40 in their graphs titled " ANTI-WEAR CHEMISTRY" and "LESS IS BETTER" with all the other 20w50 Harley oils. Oh yes, it must be because that is our oil for racing use with the least amount of Zinc- Phosphorus (ZDDP) additives. They chose to use our racing oil in their charts to show Amsoil products containing more ZDDP than other brands of motorcycle oil. Problem is, that our SPL race oil is not a motorcycle-specific oil. More on this later.
We know, as he does, that high levels of this additive are unnecessary for racing use. You see, these additives are proven to work with the same effectiveness regardless of the amount present in the oil! (so long as there is at least some ZDDP present at all times) Where the benefits of high doses of ZDDP are actually realized is in long-term and long distance use, ensuring that the oil never runs out of this critical additive. That’s why our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4, Spectro Heavy Duty and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils all have roughly 50% more zinc-phosphorus additive than our Race oils. Even much more than any of Amsoil’s oils! His claim that his motorcycle oils, "contain more zinc and phosphorus than popular motorcycle oils" is clearly a misstatement. One look at the additive chart of our Golden American 4 20w50 will dramatically prove that he is having trouble with seeing the truth. Our SPL 5w40 Race Oil, as tested by Amsoil and listed in their charts, is a ‘Multi–use’ racing lubricant for cars, bikes and any other vehicle seeking to gain an increase in horsepower. Totally different application. We do not recommend it for use in a Harley! Our Golden Spectro 4, Golden American 4 and Spectro 4 motorcycle oils are, however, very popular motorcycle oils and as such, have always come with the highest levels of ZDDP additives available for an extra margin of safety in motorcycle use. To view their ZDDP additive content charts and to compare their ZDDP numbers to the Amsoil products, visit our ‘oil comparison’ page.
Second, I have a problem with Amsoil’s use and method of the ASTM D 4172 test. The ASTM specifies that this test must be conducted at 75 deg. centigrade (167 F) + or - 2 degrees and a rotation speed of 1,200 RPM + or - 60 RPM for 60 minutes + or - 1 minute. Their tests are not to be subject to the user’s whims or needs, they are to be conducted only one way, within these specifications, regardless of whether the machine used can operate at different speeds and temperatures. The temperature required for this test is not to be changed and is obviously intended for transmission lubricating fluids, not engine oils, based on the required operating temperature.
Amsoil, as quoted in their brochure G-391, says," Amsoil submitted four popular motorcycle oils to spectrographic analysis and Four-Ball Wear (ASTM D 4172) testing" but two paragraphs later say that, "Amsoil conducted the Four-Ball Wear Test at 302 F/ 150C" , a significantly higher temperature… and their chart (see above) actually says the tests were run at 1,800 RPM. I would like to know if Amsoil really sent these oils out for the ASTM D 4172 tests to an independent lab or if they conducted the test themselves, as they readily admit.
I would be very suspicious of any result found and published by a manufacturer that does not follow strict ASTM guidelines and is conducted in such a way as to intentionally alter the ASTM results, as Amsoil has clearly done. That's my opinion.
Last edited by Fishercat; 09/11/2007 7:23 AM.
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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There are numerous discrepancies with this article, one of which is that the ASTM D 4172 specification is just a sliding surface gear and pinion wear test for differential gear scarring. This test is a requirement for API certification of all motor oils. It is a measure of how much wear an oil will allow between two moving surfaces, like between piston rings and cylinder wall, or even better the main crank bearings.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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and awwwaaayyyy we go 
2005 America, Green, Thunderbike exhaust
LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE HE** OUT OF THE WAY!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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If a 5 to 7 litre truck runs diesel oil instead of synthetic then that must tell us something. How many miles do trucks run before engine replacement Diesel oil is a high performance oil with great anti wear properties that is why shell recomend Rotella diesel for motorcycles both are high pressure engines needing the best oil I have tried synthetics in my speedie and it was really noisy and gearbox clunking all over the place. In desperation I tried diesel oil ahh what relief. Have you guys running synthetics tried diesel oil at least I have a direct comparison on my bike. Having said all of that we run what oil we like in our bikes so have good riding !!! P.S. Is synthetic the same as plastic 
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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tests as in plural from several different sources,not the one done by Amsoil.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Loquacious
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Quote:
tests as in plural from several different sources,not the one done by Amsoil.
What source? Give me an example?
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Re: how to change from synthetic to regular oil?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Just google it there are plenty, every time I look I find new ones.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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