Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods 904 BB or wait for 1500cc?

My wife is enjoying riding more and more and it's making me wish I had more power. I love my bike, I've done all the performance mods (other than the BB) I would care to. It's chromed it out and I've added just about everything I care for.

If I were to add the BB, I'd have considerably more in the bike than the new cruiser will probably cost. I guess my dilemma is that even the BB and all the mods would not touch a stock 1500cc in terms of torque and power. Right now the only thing logical would be to wait and see the new bike before doing anything else. None of all the added stuff will get me much more for my bike.

I guess I was fishing for other opinions. The Rocket never appealed to me, but a larger cruiser that looks like an America or Speedmaster - that could be another story.

Never bought into the more power and torque thing. It's just depends on how much the blasted thing weighs. You may have mor power and torque but will it be enough to compensate the extra 200-300 pounds and $$$. The only advantage would be if you two up a lot and need a little more room. That is how I got my bike because the previous owner started to ride a lot more and farther with his old lady and needed a bike more suited to their riding. Love our bikes but the comfort level on long distance two upping is just not there. That no problem because my wife rarely rides and I mostly keep my ride solo. But if you two up a lot then the 1500cc(if it ever comes!) will probably be your bag.

heres how i am justifying the work i am doing this winter. i have an 05 america, ride 2 up all the time, have a ton of money in extras in the bike. as of now the only bikes that appeal to me are victories, but my america with the corbin has more passenger room and is more confortable (she says) than anyother bike out there. she is just cramped on everything else i like. with all the money i ahve in the bike how much will you really get back. also if you love everything about the bike accept power then maybe the 904 is worth it. me personally i am doing the 904 and headwork, so for a few thousand i will be happy because this bike just fits me and i feel great on it. comes down to how much money you got, and how much you like the bike.

Frank

like they said, the 1500 is likely to be bloated, fat, and ill-handling compared to your nimble speedy. It will be powerful comparitively, but if you like the speedy the 904 could be a good option.

I just installed a 904 kit in my bonnie a few months back and it has changed it into a fire breathing monster! I'm going to get some mikunis next, I can't imagine the 1500 being as nimble as our "little" bikes. Think long distance cruiser w/ low down power more than a nimble sporty bike.

btw, check out this vid of my 904:
http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j158/sweatmachine/?action=view&current=sweat904august07003.flv

Sweat,,,have you done a dyno run on your bike yet?

no, I was thinking of doing it this weekend which is the first chance I've had, but it's supposed to rain like heck. I have a set of 17'' mag wheels and a front end off an sv650 I've been meaning to fit on my bike so I'm going to tackle that instead. I'll get the parts on, measure for spacers I'll need etc, then put the stock stuff back on so I can ride it.

I also plan on getting an air/fuel ratio gauge. I'd like to get the gauge and install it before going to the dyno, I don't know when that will be installed but probably in the next month-ish.

My guess on my #s though is around 70 hp and 65-68 ft lbs at the wheel. Mine is/was an 865 and it has the torquier cams than the 790-360 motors. More tq, less hp.

Take a look at the NH rally Dyno chart here NH Dyno Thread
Looks like a BB kit delivers enough torque to accomplish your objectives.

i ride 2 up alot and like you i am thinking the same thing but with a stroker kit and JE PISTON'S.. but now i will wait till i see the new 1500..and i mean real pic's then even wait till i get to set on one.. and ride it.i see most talk bad about the new 1500.. i say let's wait and see what triumph's comes up with.. before i juge it

ED

I am really thinking hard about the stroker kit for the torque side of the equation...sure would like to see well documented dyno results from a side-by-side run by both kits.

I will reserve judgment until I ride a 1500 and see a dyno chart on one. I like the feel of my Speedmaster and am happy with the power. I doubt I will do a BB or stroker until I need a rebuild. When that time comes it will most likely be a BB stroker.

so you and other's can get some ideal of what i was going to do see i have a 865 cylinder that i was going to use on my 790 motor with a stroker kit and custom piston's from JE
and do head work also...now i know this way does cost more but with me doing most of the work i could keep the cost down...but as of right now it is all on hold till i get a good look at this new 1500..then and only then i will decide what i want to do heck even by then i mite be getting a spyder lol or a sport tour

ED

I am gonna go out on a limb here.

Save $250.00 per month on a bike fund. Don't sell that one. Buy another one in a few years as a used bike. Have both worlds, and have the titles too. Even though you buy it don't stop saving the money, keep putting it in for the next toy that comes up.

I really love having a choice, even at that, by next year I will have a Vegas too.

Don't BB apply that money to bike #2. Let the factory build the power for you.

There is no 1500 cc owners web page, so I'm keeping my speedy!
Scott

The phrase "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" comes to mind.

I love the fact you can ask for input on this forum and get it! I stopped by my dealer yesterday and asked more about the 1500 and the BB kit. It would cost 800.-1000. to get them to do the BB works on the bike and they have dyno runs before/after on 790s like mine that look really impressive.

They are going to the dealer meeting in October and hope to see one of the 1500 bikes. The dealer said they couldn't see actually getting one on the showroom floor until early 2008. They are planning to put in orders at the October meeting. So, it looks like actually seeing and riding one could still be awhile off yet.

I've taken to heart all the responses here. I do love the bike I have. Comfort is not really an issue. Since I added the 07 pillion, my wife is happy but still is not interested in any long trips. I'm not sure the larger cruiser would change that. I'm the one that wants more power when we're both riding, but I do like the agility and handling of a lighter bike that doesn't look lightweight. It would probably take a couch on wheels (ie. GoldWing) to make her comfortable enough for longer trips.

So, life is short. Maybe the BB makes sense and might even kill any immediate desire for a similar, but slightly larger cruiser. Who knows, I may like it so much I want to keep it even if I decide to get a couch tourer. Traveling is one thing, but I'm not so sure I want to be another old fart riding a GW to a bike bar on Sundays. Granted there's comfort, but our bikes have class, style, and heritage!

I'd do the 904 kit...or even the 1100 kit from BP before I'd buy a water cooled 1500cc rocket knockoff.

The speedy or america will be much lighter, and even if you opt for just a 904 kit and mikuni's you can expect 80rwhp...cant go wrong with that.

You might want to add thats 80 HP's under 500 LBS.

I've been watching this 1500 story for a while now and as a very happy owner of an 03 Speedy I've been weighing up the deal.

We all started talking about the extra hp/tq we would get and how in many opinions, including my own, that is all the America/Speedy was missing. But as the story unfolded with inclusion of the water bucket then the shaft drive the thoughts turned to handling and weight. Realistically I cant see this bike being a Speedy with a 1500 as in the photoshops we've been joking about (cheers Ed ), I'm starting to get the feeling that the 1500 is going to be more of a cut down Rocket.

For me the comfort, ergonomics and handling is more of a plus than the lack of power is a negative so the 904 kit is starting to look real, real good.

Hey maybe I'll be wrong, only time will tell.

Do not wait for the 1500. Do the big bore. You love your bike, except you wish for a bit more power. Nobody knows what the new bike will look like, how it will handle or ride. And even if it does turn out to be a bike that you do like, you'll have an America that you love but with more CCs.

Soren

I agree. I think I need to quit worrying about resale value and focus on enjoyment value. It took over a year before I had everything fixed the way I liked on the bike. I don't care to go through that again anytime soon either.

If a larger engine version had been available when buying the bike, I wouldn't have thought twice about another grand to get it. I've been putting 4-5,000 miles a year on the bike and it's in mint shape. It's got quite a few years of enjoyment before any major work. The BB really does make a lot of sense. It's off warranty, time to step it up a notch.

When I'm able to get that done, I'll post a "after BB update".

i totally agree on the 1500cc. I have a 2002 america and really like it, but I weigh 350lb. and need a little more power.i am also waiting for the 1500cc. I like the looks of the twin parall. My spelling is not the best in the world.I just put a new chain and a rubber cushion in the rear hub. i have 27,000 miles on it.

Just noticed newspeedy.com is offering a 988cc BB 1/4" Stroker kit. Anyone know anything about these? Is there much more engine work, i.e. labor $$, involved?

Good question! I'd like to know as well!

I am not saying one way or the other but I believe that the Brits are doing their homework on the mid size cruiser. I am sure that if they build a 1500cc bike that resembles the America or Speedy, I believe that it will handle well. Anyone out there that has ridden the Rocket III will attest to this, The Rocket has a nice low center of gravity and you can throw it around in the turns alot better than I ever expected. I think it handle quite well and as for weight sit on a Rocket and lift it off of the kickstand, I think it feels lighter than our bikes picking it up of of the kick stand (lower center of gravity). I have ridden a Rocket on about a 20 mile test ride and I will eventually have one in my stable. So all I am saying is that I believe you won't be giving up much handling capabilities by going with the "1500cc America/Speedy" As I believe the Brits will build another great ride! I own a 904 America and it runs good but the only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches and 1500cc's sounds good and 2300 better yet!

I am sure there are other Rocket owners or riders that will agree with my prediction.

Ron, just how significant was the change in your bike going to the 904?

Doug, the stroker kit does require considerably more engine work/labor than the regular 904 kit, at least that's what I hear from my dealer.

I've looked at both the newspeedmaster and wiseco sites and while neither states it, stroking a motor suggests the rods have to be relocated on the crank. That's precision machine shop work and that translates to considerably more engine work.

It was a nice increase in power and torque, you are able to roll on the throttle where before you would want or need to downshift to pickup speed. When I had the 904 installed it was running a little lean and had to up the jets and I also installed some better flowing exhaust. But I am pretty pleased with the power gains but I am always looking for more. I am looking for a place to get it dynoed but have not had much luck. I want to find a place that equipped with a sniffer as well. I want to try a set of Mikuni's also. Like I said it runs strong but I am always wanting a little more!

for the stroker kit you have to split the cases, pull the crank, and have it offset-welded, machined, then micro-polished. It ain't cheap, figure 1-2k just for the crank work alone, then the engine rebuild, plus the big bore kit.

$3000 ought to cover it, without the cost of labor or the engine rebuild.

glad i don't live were you do i could get the hole job done and i mean every thing... for half that price

ED

OUCH!! The 904's looking better all the time, not to mention the good ol' 790.

I know it is a different engine, but Eurosport Cycles made well over 100 hp with a Thruxton and 988, NARK, CR carbs, head work and 2 into 1 pipes. Not 100% as I'm going from memory, but I think the dyno sheet said 109hp.

109 sounds a bit high, unless they had some really high compresion. would luv to see the bike/dyno sheet

Frank

yes, well over 100hp is pretty out there. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they broke 95hp. You'd have to get some cams ground to make over 90 with that setup, especially considering the crappy CR carbs.

I wonder if there are any 1500 cc threads out there ? I can't seem to get away from that number .

I'll ask next time I'm in. Tony owns the joint and has always been open and honest with everything. Like I said, I'm going off fuzzy memory, but it was over 100. Maybe he still has the dyno sheet and will let me post it. I'll ask. I'll be in there in a couple of weeks to get mine on the dyno. Need to finalize the exhaust/ carb set up.

Curious, Jeff. What is your knock on the CR's? I'm just curious why you say that cuz I've got a friend running the set from Bella with the new choke circuits, and he loves em. I was think of picking a set up for myself. What experiences have you had with them?

honestly I have 0 personal experience with them, but for the money they seem like a waste. For only another 200 you could install your own big bore kit, or get some TM 36mm mikunis which are a superior carb.

I would like to check Eurosport Cycles sometime though. Maybe one weekend I'll ride up.

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or get some TM 36mm mikunis which are a superior carb


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So do you have any reliable information to back this 'claim' up?

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I have running tm 36mm for 2 years now with no trouble at all...

Ed

Please don't take this the wrong way, guys, but you lot always seem to want the extra horses,...'it's brilliant but could do with just a bit more power', etc and then you go on to tell us that you weigh 250lbs or whatever. (What is that in proper money, anyway?) Perhaps, rather than looking at increasing the power of the bike, you could look at, erm, reducing the weight that bike must move. I know it's not as easy as that but it'd certainly save you money.
I've done a few quick calculations but stock bike (55hp) with a 180lb person puts out 185hp/ton. For someone weighing 250lbs to get that figure, they'd have to find an extra 7-8 horses. Just a thought...and no offense meant to anyone.



Hmmm, looking at that a bit closer, you could say that for every 10 lbs you weigh over 180, you need an extra 1 horsey!!!