Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Another ignitor gone? Opinions? (Part 2)

Well, I finally got a chance to look into the pickup coil as a problem. Traced the wires back to under the seat (I assume on a non-freaked bike, the connector would be under the side panel?). Anyhoo, popped the connector loose and ohmed the coil. It is showing a dead open which it should not. Very odd as the bike will run until hot and then cut out completely until I do a key off/on sequence. The longer I go, the worse the cutout situation becomes. But it DOES run..... sorta

So... I am definitely suspecting the coil but before I go blow $68 on a new coil assembly I am hoping I can impose on some of you.

If you know what you are doing (know where the connector is and have an ohmmeter), could one, two, however many go and open the connector and ohm the coil? I would like to see what others are reading.

The connector is a two pin rounded rectangle. there should be two small wires going into it from the coil side. The colors are black and red and the wires are probably 20 ga. Also, these wires from the coil are on the male/pin side of the connector.

That is indicative of a bad coil. They will often work until hot. Same with the resistance reading.

600.

Phil,
My digital readout says 644 ohms, cold (well, after sitting from riding to work for 4 hours as it's well over 90 here).

Phil,
Pat and I had a long discussion about coils and their relation to busted cdi's. I remeber he knew what he was talking about, but not what he said. It would be worth asking him a couple of questions before you drop the dough.

Phil,
Find a ring tester to use to test them (Sometimes just called a ringer). Most TV shops or electronics shops have them. They are made specifically for testing electric coils/transformers. They send current through a coil that spits out a nice pretty curve with the actual usability of a coil under loaded condition. Just measuring resistance tells you if it open, shorted or whatever at that time with no load this does not tell you the actual inductance or inductive reactance. XsubL.

Bill, Ed, I cannot thank you enough!!

Now that she's dead cold, the first thing i am going to do this afternoon is measure the pickup coil again and see if there's any difference.

Thanks Alden, I will PM Pat and pick his brain!!

I hear ya Pat and I was only looking for an open/shorted/resistance situation and go from there. With Bill & Ed's info, that sucker had better read some resistance today!!

I pulled the sidecover off yesterday to look for physical problems (wires/ connector/gap/etc.) and everything looks normal so if I still get an open today, I will have it tested. I still have some nerd friends from my old days of electronics!

btw, for those of you that don't know, be very careful putting the alternator cover back on. The friggin magnets in the alternator rotor are really strong and it could nip your finger!! I saw it coming and managed to keep all my skin!

OK, I feel like an idiot. I had the stupid meter set to the 200 ohm range. Gee, wonder why it was reading and open? Duh... Set the meter to the 2k range and it's reading 611 ohms. Sigh.... I am going to put her back together (after setting the gap to 0.8mm) and check her again.

Another thing I am going to do is swap the coils back to stock. Even though I swapped them to Nology about 6 months ago, I want to eliminate them too.

I hate these kind of problems.....

Turning the key off and back on has me stumped. It's as though it were burned contacts on a relay instead of a semiconductor failure or a coil opening up under heat...

ooooh, the nology coils are nice....but...if your ground is not 1000000% good, you can easily fry your coils and the CDI box. That is what has always made me leery of them.

This might sound pretty stupid but have you eliminated the possibility of a dud Ignition switch, had this problem on one of my Nortons a while back, it was running erattic just before it stopped and then just nothing.I would turn off the ignition, wheel it out of the traffic, curse & swear at all thing Lucas, switch it back on again, one gentle kick and she would fire up and run perfectly for another hour or two then cut out in the same manner ,thought it was a coil, maybe carburation, boyer pickup, any number of scenarios, had a new ignition switch as a spare put it on and lo & behold hasn't stopped since.
Just a thought anyway
Hoffo

AWESOME! glad to hear your back on the road bro!!! Now start driving north, the way you ride it will take you that long to get to the Nor East!

excuses, excuses...its just too hot for the old man to ride!

Quote:

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the way you ride it will take you that long to get to the Nor East!

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Now that was just mean. Funny though!

yota, I only needed 20 miles to test and the temp was a chilly 87. Tomorrow, I ride. The heat don't bother me a bit. You would probably wilt like a wet paper towel down here.

Send the lad to north Alabama, Phil, the heat index here today was 110 and we're in the cool mountains upstate! And, it was still a lovely ride to and from work.

Heat index was over 100 here today. I'm glad I work in an office!

Phil, glad to see your problem has been solved and you are riding once again... After reading about the Nology coils and the problems with them I guess I will keep my stock coils for the time being.. Keep the rubber side down and enjoy you bike once again...

thats a nice easy fix. better than the $500 alternative

Frank

Amen to that!! Tomorrow she gets a good shakedown. I'll do the obligatory round and round the neighborhood (just in case) and then a 100 miles or so to REALLY see.

btw, I wonder if it could have anything to do with the very cool ride bell Janet gave me and I installed last night?



Is it coincidence that my troubles started right after I lost my last one in the GA twisties?

67 miles later, we are all good. Took me almost 3 hours to get those miles on (city) but I got slow go (definitely got hot! ), regular cruising, and some highway.

This problem is solved!

Very cool for you. Not such a great ad for Nology, though....

Maybe not. I talked to Nology and they requested them sent back. I did so and I just got a call from them that they are definitely bad are warranty replacing them. I should have new coils in about 3-4 days!!

That's great Phil, I'm glad that the problem is solved for you and I am certainly hoping it is an isolated incident (your nology coils) All the symptoms sounded so closely related to CDI failure like mine a few months back. Theres four ignition (spark) components all interconnected "CDI, pick up coil, TPS, and coils" not to mention numerous support components and connections and I suppose a failure point of any one would react like the "weak link" in the chain with similar signs and symptoms. I'm running nology coils and have said on many occasions that they are the best over all "bolt on" seat of the pants performance boost mod done to my bike. This is the first time I have heard of a failure with the nology's so please keep that virus or whatever it is over in Florida! Anyway glad you got it going! and thanks for sharing the findings!T

VERY quick. They're in CA. I mailed them this past Saturday morning, they got them yesterday afternoon (delivery confirmation), got the phone call later this morning. So it sounds like they opened the box this morning and tested them right away.

The whole experience dealing with them was a pleasure.

Phil,

Really glad you found the problem. If you install the new Nology coils you might want to consider packing your stock coils (on long trips) just in case.

Tom

even if it means leaving the fan at home...

I like these coils!

From Nology:

Nology's new line of high performance ignition coils features the most impressive performance data. The application of all new technology makes these coils second to none. ProFire ignition coils are on the cutting edge of technology. In order to supply the energy needed for trouble free high performance and high rpm operation, they were especially designed to have the quickest rise time with substantial energy reserves. The available spark voltage is in excess of 45,000 volts over the entire rpm range, and spark energy is equally impressive.

Snake oil? Personally, I don't believe so.....

I've been running the Nology coils and wires for a couple of years. Never a glitch. Glad to here they are responding so quickly to your problem

I'v also been running the nology coils for a couple of years now. No problems. I do run the german spark plug wires as opposed to the nology ones. The nology plug wires were the possible problem area being they are grounded as I recall. Besides, the german ones have the nice stainless steel boot for more bling.................

I'm running those same wires also....

I have been running the Nology coils and wires for probaby a year or more now and have not had a problem.

here ya go just a bit of math and your there

Two of the more common formulations for windchill were developed by Siple (1945) and Court (1948). Court modified Siple's formulation only slightly, using "certain observed values" that were apparently ignored by Siple. Both formulations have the same algebraic structure, but with different constants; both provide an equation for heat loss (H) from an exposed surface. Selection of a "baseline" condition of windspeed and temperature allows solving for a windchill temperature at different conditions.

H = ( A + B * sqrt(S) + C * S ) dT

where:
H == Heat Loss, kg cals/m²/hr
dT == temperature difference (°C), between assumed
skin temperature (33°C) and ambient temperature
S == windspeed, m/s

and the constants, A, B, and C are:

Siple Court
A 10.45 9.00
B 10.00 10.90
C -1.00 -1.00

In a practical sense, with the following definitions, use the following formulas for calculating windchill (Siple's and Court's formulas, rearranging terms and substituting for unit conversions):

Twc == windchill temperature
T == ambient temperature
S == windspeed



For °F and mph (baseline conditions of 91.4°F and 4 mph):


Siple: Twc = 91.4 + ( T - 91.4 ) ( .474 + .304 sqrt(S) - .0203 S )

Court: Twc = 91.4 + ( T - 91.4 ) ( .550 + .279 sqrt(S) - .0203 S )

for S >= 4 mph
T < 91.4 °F

Test (Siple): S=20mph, T=20 °F ---> Twc = -10.5 °F

or if you perfer not to do math at this hour... you can go here