Bonneville America Forums Forums Rider Safety Forums Legislation Steering clear of Virginia

Of course, living in Montana, steering clear of VA is not a problem:

"Starting July 1, an array of traffic offenses, from expired licenses to speeding, come with a "civil remedial fee" attached. That means a motorist convicted of reckless driving (75 mph in a 55 zone would qualify) faces not only a fine of up to $2,500 and a year in jail, but a non-negotiable $350-a-year tax for three years. The law forbids judges from waiving or reducing the fee."

Full story:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/Advice/VirginiasNewSpeedingTicket.aspx

I just read that article the other day, scary stuff. Fortunately they can't enforce the fees for out-of-state drivers. Only problem is that other states are starting to adopt this legislation as well. I enjoyed growing up in Northern Virginia but I don't think I could ever afford to move back.

not with that 675 anyways...

Whew! I thought it was about steering clear of... Oh, never mind!

Yeah, definitely not.

Holy Moly

Never wanted to go to Virginia anyway

WOW! And to think, I thought the $186 40 in a 30mph I got was bad. These "fees" are downright cruel! What exactly is a "civil remedial fee" anyway? Sounds like extortion.


If we had more comprehensive driver training in this country....

Virgina had a mini revolt over car tags and toosed a lot of the SOB's out several years ago. Sounds like a good platform for an aspiring politician.

Pretty harsh stuff, charging you more for breaking the law at the felony level. What are they thinking?

Virginians have started revolting on-line. There's a petition that just about has the state legislature convinced to, if not roll back the statute, at least to take a look at it again in January.

We certainly don't want to penalize someone for exercising their right to do something as simple as felony DWI or felony reckless driving. That you might kill an innocent person is certainly no reason to be charged more for felony violation of a privilege that apparently many see as a right.

And according to the linked article many other states do it as well, not just VA. VA just hasn't seen fit to charge everyone equally. I'm a resident, and I'm all for it, but I think it should apply to any felony violator, as I believe is the case in New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Texas.

But of course since it's in the news for VA, let's just forget about the other states that do it.

So for now, VA would be the one state that out-of-stators would be treated more leniently than the other states who have such laws. You may want to reconsider which state you would steer clear of.

Well, so much for my planned suggestion to the Tourist Bureau of that Commonwealth for a slight modification of their motto to.....
"Virginia is for lovers..of velocity!"

(notice if you will how that fell trippingly off the tongue)

I guess it's back to the old drawin' board for me!

Why not make 5 over a felony? After all, speeding is speeding! Set the speed limits really low and hammer everyone who exceeds them, yeah that's the ticket! We can justify it as a public safety measure. It's for the children don't you know? Anyone who speeds is endangering the children!! Hanging's too good for him, burning's too good for him, he should be torn to itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive! 45 on the interstate, 35 on primary highways, 25 or 15 in town and 5 in a school zone. With 5 over a felony allowing confiscatory fines and taxes we could balance the budget on that alone. It could be saving lives AND saving gas. Anyone who violated it is positively unpatriotic in addition to being a wild scofflaw. They DESERVE whatever we do to them! Oh, police and public officials would be exempt of course.

Well, I guess that's to be expected for not toeing the party bash line.

I believe the difference between misdemeanors and felonies has not changed in many years. Of course it sounds good to say that hyperbole doesn't it? And lets not mention that the same could be said for every state at any time... but let's not say that since it's not in the news.

And I wouldn't worry too much about it. I suspect the majority view in VA (and apparently the view here) that you shouldn't have to pay too much to break laws will prevail.

The argument that if you don't break the law you pay nothing has been well buried and will probably not come back.

Virginia can do anything they want. All I know is if British Columbia, Idaho or Montana had similar laws (and more enforcement) I'd be broke and serving several years in jail right now.

Ahem. Well now that you've got Larry all fired up there FJ, why don't you move this thread to the Legislation Forum, so he can go mutter to himself about all this, and we can go visit him now and then between rounds here at The Lounge.

(sorry Larry...but you should know by now that I can't resist this kind'a shot, don't cha?!)

(and speakin' o' "shot", I'll have another round of that Single Malt over there, Barkeep!)

Excellent idea, Dwight!

As a transplated Virginian, I'd like to thank Triumph, or its Thai workers, for constructing a speedometer that reads 10MPH over actual speed.

Now, that's the speedtrap that keeps on trapping!

I'll 2nd what Tom said!
Of course with the traffic as bad as it is during rush hour, it's impossible to speed anyway.

I live in VA and don't object to the law except for the part where the annual tax won't apply to out of staters. Virginia is now discriminating against its own residents. That bites.

I travel a lot in VA (NOVA), and I'm definitely slowing down! The truckers have been taling about this a lot and they are also scared. Here's the online petition, for VA only residents:
****** VA Laws petition

I find it interesting that of the 4 Virginians who posted, 2 don't express a real firm opinion against (but probably are against), and 2 support the measure (except for the stupidity of not applying to everyone).

And these are the only people in this thread the law will affect.

OK, go ahead and bash on us some more for supporting something that doesn't apply to the rest of you.

Well, I meant the aggresive speed enforcement I've noticed in the past two weeks (Dulles toll road and 495). I assume this stepped up enforcement is related to the new means of revenue. Some VA state troopers mentioned they would give no warnings and would be applying the full fines. I've slowed down to the senseless 55 mph on the Greenway.


My daughter had her lucky break in VA in April. Pulled over for doing 81 on I-81. Only fined $326. The nice officer pointed out her vehicle registration (MD plates) had expired in March....of 2006! I told her most folks would have had their vehicle impounded and a big fine to pay. Guess it pays to be a young girl...

A good observation JJ.
Let me clarify my position as a resident of Virginia:

To penalize one states residents only and not anyone else is a waste of time and taxpayer money. It proves no point, does nothing for the greater good and only alienates that states residents.
This is yet another stupid law to make the pages of a bathroom reader book in the future.

Hey, VA did take cell phones from drivers under the age of 18.
Also, no smoking within 20 feet of a gas pump.

I applaud those measures. I've been bugging our MD legislators for two years to get cell phones out of drivers hands. The Delegates, Congressmen and State Senators are prime offenders to that will never get through. I keep asking why Maryland riders/drivers can't be as safe as those in New Jersey.

My 24 year old daughter was just passing thru Va . from Ga . with her not so dark window tint and VSP wrote her a 75.00 ticket , no discussion .

Obviously this touched a nerve. I thought the story was interesting so I posted it. It's definitely newsworthy. I mentioned Virginia because it is the focus of the article, at least initially. None of the penalties for the other states listed are as hardcore. That's probably why the MSN staff focused on Virginia.

I re-read Larry's posts, too, and aside from the usual bombast (you know what I mean, Larry, don't start with me), I don't see a personal attack.

I'm sorry that you've taken this so personally, but it doesn't change the facts of the article.

Government, by its very nature, is coercive. Politics and, to a somewhat lesser extent, law enforcement, attract people who like to control others. Having been caught up in legislative speed limit debates and heard state troopers talk about controlling drivers I no longer have any illusions that safety or economy have more than a tangential impact on speed limits, enforcement policies or penalties. It’s all about using the coercive power of government to control citizens. Elected officials and police agencies often set absurdly low speed limits and then strictly enforce them. Partly for the revenue, largely for the power and almost never with any real consideration for safety. I remember driving across Texas on I-10 when the speed limit was 55. Stupid, counter productive and actually dangerous but very politically correct at the time. Highways designed for 80+ MPH traffic being limited to 55, same thing.

When a speed limit is universally ignored that should tell the police and politicians that the limit is too low. It NEVER does, their instinct is to intensify enforcement, increase penalties and tighten control over drivers. They use the excuse that they are increasing safety but that is nonsense. If they cared about safety they would be sitting at traffic lights nabbing those who run them not nailing drivers for 65 in a 55 when everyone is doing 65.

It appears that Virginia has decided to get draconian in its enforcement. Judging by the fines and taxes they want to impose I’d bet the 75 in a 55 driver will get slapped harder then a drug dealer or a thief.

And jj, of course it was a bash at your position. I think you’re wrong on that issue. If you are offended when someone disagrees with you don’t ever go into politics.

I use to live in VA and this story is funny to me, because most surrounding states of VA complain about how fast people from VA drive. I remember that "South of the Boarder" billboard on I-95 "VA it's I-95 not 95 MPH".

Tom

I drive about 60,000 miles a year and have the opportunity to see traffic enforcement on a regular basis in MD/VA/NJ/DE/PA and NY. Primarily turnpike systems. (over 500,000 miles since my last ticket...) VA isn't the only state with dubious practices.

If you have ever driven into MD on I-95, you are probably aware of the super aggresive speed enforcement. I wrote a letter to the MD State Police commandant two months ago about a practice I observed on 95. Troopers would park on the shoulder of the fast lane, with no shoulder, and run radar. (four lanes of traffic) When they found a scofflaw, one of the troppers would run out into the fast lane and point down a vehicle. The last time this was done the guy in front of me (we weren't speeding) thought the trooper was pulling him over, so he promptly came to a stop in the next-to-fast lane with me directly behind and no where to go. An 18 wheeler locked it up behind me and all I saw was smoke and a Mack truck grill. I couldn't go to the right because of trucks and the tropper was standing in the empty fast lane. I was furious at nearly being killed by this stupid means of enforcement and wrote a letter chastising them. A week or two later, a local sheriff was killed on a county road in MD dong the same thing. MD has now stopped this silliness but I've yet to hear from the MD State Police.

I have recent story for another time involving two PA state troopers pulling a dumb-arse move on I-81.

I try to drive as safely as possible in order to survive and it really sets me off when police officers are the problem. (apologies to any officers on this list)

This legislation is about revenue. It even states exactly that in the legislation itself. It doesn't even pretend to be about public safety.

It came to pass when VA's General Assembly couldn't pass a 1-cent gas tax increase for transportation funding. This was the "compromise".

It's already being challenged in several cases, and on several constitutional basis. It won't be long before a judge bars enforcement pending outcome. Furthermore, the online petition has actually gotten lawmakers attention - there have already been calls by General Assembly for the Governor to convene a special session for the specific purpose of repealing the legislation. Many incumbents don't want this to be an election issue.

John and Larry,

You are correct. I shouldn't post late when I'm tired.

Sorry for taking is so seriously.

Al, I'm a big "flow of traffic" kind of driver. Generally the high side of the flow, but flow none the less. I think a lot of people concentrate on that, and if a stationary object (like a police officer) comes up, it REALLY shakes things up. People even SEE a cop car around here and they STAB at the brakes. 4 cars back all of a sudden you are going 30 in the left lane of the LIE. Not fun.

My dad is one of those "slower is better" kinda guys. He'll frown upon you for going 70 in a 55, but if someone is going 40 he thinks its fine because it is "within the law". Well, going 40 in an interstate might as well be standing still!! I'll take my MSF instructors advice. Better to get up and go in the fast lane than become and obstacle for a mack truck.

I worked in interstate transportation for 30 years, and experienced more than a few of these bizzarre occurrences. Whenever a tax is involved, the more bizzarre it was.

A few of the odd ones I recall: MA used to require all out of state drivers to obtain a MA driver's license if they were operating commercial vehicles for the purpose of MA intrastate only work duties. The thought of license reciprocity, common among the 50 states since hector was a pup, was somehow circumvented.

The NY Thruway would impound commercial vehicles for being a few hundred pounds overweight, until the fine was paid. So if the police scale did not match the shipper's scale - tough luck. Show them the money.

MA would impound commercial vehicles if the base plate was not issued by the jurisdiction of domicile.

PA levied an 'axle tax' on out of state vehicles only. It was struck down as unconstitutional, and so PA dug up an ancient foreign franchise tax to levy on the out of staters.

NJ also dug out an ancient foreign franchise tax for out of staters. If a company does not appear on the list of those participating in the tax program, the vehicle is impounded.

It is perhaps my opinion alone that these odd laws often coincide with a states need to raise cash after too many instances of reckless spending. We in NW CT are going to build a 40 million dollar court house on 6 or 8 acres of land. The cost to do the study on this 6 or 8 acres: $500,000. That's a lotta perc testing, if you ask me.

The good news is in many cases, the bizarre laws generally get trimmed back or corrected to somewhat more common sense grounds, but life can get 'interesting' in the mean time.

I must say these big fines scare the cr*p out of me. I'm a fairly cautious driver (heck, I'm old) but I got tagged in KY by a trooper who was convinced I was doing 90+ in a 65 zone. My GPS backed me up but that cut no ice in my circumstance and presumably, if i got tagged again in KY I'd be in deep glue.

If I'd seen this . I'd have camped out in KY and fought the ticket but I was tired and wanted to get home. The item linked above has excellent hints on fighting tickets. Worth bookmarking.