Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech No oil in new Bonneville? Engine oil capacity?

I just had my brand new 2007 Bonneville bike delivered this morning. The guy from the dealer drove it to get gas as it didn't have any and around for about 5m to make sure everything was working okay. It was fine.

I didn't get a chance to take it out until much later. I turned it on, and again, fine. I went inside to grab my stuff, came back out, and now it won't turn on. The oil light comes on when I go to start it and the engine doesn't make a sound. I check the levels and I notice there is no oil at all showing up in the sight glass. I put in 1 quart of oil and it still doesn't even reach the bottom of the sight glass. I don't want to put in any more until I know what the capacity is

Here are my initial questions:

- Anyone know what the capacity for engine oil is? I read 2.5 quarts, but that was on a 70s Bonneville.

- If there was no oil in the bike, how much damage could have been done to the engine during the 5m drive the guy from the dealer took ? How concerned should I be that it's not turning over at all now and what should my conversation with the dealer tomorrow entail?

Many thanks in advance for your input!

WHAAT ? I think I would get another dealer and tell them they can keep that bike , ouch ! What were they thinkin'? Oh , takes about 3.8 qt , check glass level , mid - glass level is acceptable .

Elizabeth , sounds as though you have some serious concerns here , assuming that THEY rode the bike THAT low on oil quite possibly damaged internals . In that case , I would NOT assume delivery of that particular machine . If they indeed ran it that low , I would question thier basic mechanical sense . There are other fine dealers out there , I don't know anything about these guys , but Jeez , what were they thinkin' ?

That's kind of what I'm thinking, but this the fist bike I've owned and want to make sure that I'm not overreacting or not doing something I should be doing.

After putting in 1 quart of oil I can just BARELY see the oil level at the very bottom of the sight glass. Barely. But I didn't want to keep dumping oil in without knowing how the bike could be affected.

You think that the bike could be ruined? I don't want to take any chances if there's the slightest chance it could be .

I am a very sad and very pissed new bike owner. I have to just sit here and stew until 9:00 am PT when they open. Oy.

Thanks!

are you sure you have it in neutral, kill switch on and side stand down?
Don't mean to be a nadbuster, but these are simple mistakes for a new owner.
And, you will not see any oil unless the bike is sitting level as well.
If there is no oil in it - return the bike, get refund, find a new dealer.
Who is this dealer anyway?

' Lizbeth , check your PM , Wade

Everything by the book. Neutral, kickstand down, engine stop switch off, key in the on position, start button.

I made sure the bike was upright when checking the levels- I even waited 30m and re-checked the levels!

if it was that low they may have done serious damage and greatly reduced the life of that engine! 3.8 qts is about right.

Kill switch in the on position I hope you meant. The engine won't crank if it's off. On meaning run not kill.

I would be jumping up and down at the dealer and want either a new engine or complete rebuild done by someone else but paid for by them. If they don't know you rode it I wouldn't tell them and just say you checked the oil and it didn't have any!

Oops. Bad typing. It was in the run position. I even had a friend who has been riding for 20+ years check it.

I didn't even get a chance to ride it! That might be what pisses me off the most. No- wait. That's not right. But it sure adds to my angst and fuels the rage.

So legally I can ask for a refund? I'll go to another dealer. As great a reputation as these guys reportedly had, I'm not sure I'd want another bike from them. I looked over the paperwork and the pre-delivery inspection list isn't fully checked off or signed off on.

Can't wait to here the outcome of this one .

I think I misunderstood if it is a new bike then yes I would want my money back or at the very least a new bike. Some poor slob is gonna get stuck with that one I bet though if it still runs OK.

Don't freak out yet... it could be the side stand safety switch came loose, a neutral switch gone awry (try pulling in the clutch), or a number of things. Down one quart isn't good, but it's not the end of the world.

The dealer is not legally bound to give you a refund, and most likely will not. They may give you a different bike. Legally, they are bound to fix yours. If you want another bike you will have to go through arbitration with Triumph. Being in CA, you have a lot of consumer laws to help you if you chose that direction. Talk to the dealer, calmly, and see what their offer is. I'm sure they will want to see the bike. Let them- and get a loaner/demo for the duration that your is at the shop.

Sad to hear of such a bad start no pun intended the oil issue might well be that you are checking the sight glass while the bike is on the side stand it should only be checked when upright ie get someone to check the oil when you are sitting on it in a ready to move off possition.
Try starting the bike with the clutch pulled in this enables you to start even if it was left in gear
all else fails whisper sweet nthings into the dealers ear and get a mechanic over to check it over for you

hope it goes better real soon

Yep, you can get a replacement bike. These bikes're shipped from the factory dry, and the dealer's supposed to give it to you in running condition with at least enough gas to get to the station for more (that's what the dealer charges are FOR). Having him run it AT ALL without oil WILL seize the engine, requiring a complete rebuild. You paid for a NEW engine & not a rebuilt one so you're due a replacement as the bike you received was not the one advertised (ie: it was irrepairably damaged by the dealer and therefore not fit for purpose.)

Please let us know the outcome of this, and you might want to let us know which dealer it was so we can avoid them if the outcome's not satisfactory.

Cowboy- It wasn't down one quart of oil out of 3.8. The only oil it has in it right now is the 1 quart I put in. And this oil was put in about 10 hours after the dealer drove it around after he delivered it to my house. I have tried a number of things, including some of what you're suggesting but nothing's worked so far. I really just fear the worst for the engine. It had no oil in it until I put in the 1 quart. That just can't be good for the engine.

Sandman - That's what I'm hoping for in truth. I do still love this bike and wouldn't mind another one... fully checked by me and an independent mechanic or two before anyone drives it.

The dealer is South Bay Triumph. Like I said before, they've been beyond great. Until now. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thanks everyone- you've been fantastic and supportive.

He stated above that he had put the qt. in and still couldn't see it.

Holy Macadamia. This is one of the worst things I've heard of in a long time. I hope everything works out for you.

Elizabeth,
The dealer won't own up to his mistake.
You need a lawyer. Many give a free consultation.
Talk to consumer affairs and the BBB.
You can hit him for the legal fees too.

Which dealer was it? We have several members in SoCal, it's possible one may be able to help.

Okay. Ready for an update?

Called the dealer this morning as soon as they opened. The mechanic sounded completely shocked when I filled him in yesterday's chain of events in detail, telling me he put 4 quarts of oil in himself before having the bike delivered. He asked me several more questions and then asked me if I could go back and check the bike again. I did, of course feeling frustrated and wanting to get this whole experience over with. The oil light turned on again... but the bike turned on as well. He asked me to check the oil level in the sight glass. I did... and it was full. I swore to him that it was empty yesterday afternoon on through to last night when I gave up around 9:00 pm. I mentioned that I even had a friend who has been riding for 20 years take a look to make sure I wasn't crazy or missing something.

Here's what he said: New oil filters have a tendency to suck up oil. Mine must have sucked up enough oil so that it didn't show up in the sight glass at all, eventually releasing the oil again so I could see it.

I've never heard of such a thing, but I guess it makes sense. It's just weird that it would hold the oil for that long. Or maybe it's not weird.

Your thoughts?

I have stopped thinking and gone completely bonkers
now you know why
G

Is it possible that the first time you checked it, it was on the sidestand so you could not see any oil in the sight glass. Then after adding one quart of oil, you checked it with the bike upright, and now being one quart overfull, it would not show up on the oil sightglass because it would actually be overfull?????

The sure way to verify what you have now is to drain the oil and measure it. You can assume that some (1/2 to one quart) will remain in the oil filter, but what comes out should be about 3 quarts, more or less. If it is closer to one quart, there was no oil in it before you put it in. If the drained oil is closer to 4 or more quarts, then the scenario I questioned at first may be the answer.

if anyone rode the bike with no oil in it for any length of time,it would have locked up tighter than dicks hat band .I think she may have had the switch off and tried to start it and thats why it did nothing.and then checked oil while on side stand.but i would drain the oil to be sure and start over again with new oil and filter.

lets do a test and see....Who wants to use there bike in the test

I like the mirror against the wall idea so you can sit on it hold it up right and still see the glass. I still squat next to it and hold it up to see but I like the mirror idea.

Hmm... I've been thinking on this. These guys are not reading your posts. I can see where you posted that you had it upright to check the level. And even waited between trying to fire it up and checking the levels again...

My question is.....Is your bike kept outside?? Is there any way the mechanic could have thought "$hit, I didn't put any oil in that bike" and nipped over and topped it up while you were not looking? That's the only reason I can think of that the oil level would havegone up that much. And no, the oil filter won't hold that much...so the "it soaked up" theory is the biggest laugh I've heard in a while...

Elizabeth,
Riding around on a dry motor would have made a terrible clatter, and most likely ruined the motor- as in seized it up. I think your okay. I'm the cool headed type that gets all the info before I rip someones head off (want to make sure I get the right head, ya see). So I still propose you stay calm and optimistic that it may have been/ still is something else. You may very well have a flaky switch or something else, but what you describe does not sound catastrophic. Let the dealer have it for a day or two to check it out and double check all the electrical connections (and get a loaner while he has it in the shop).

He (the mechanic) is partly correct about the oil getting sucked up- it's just not the filter that does it. The oil travels through the motor. So after it is ridden, if it is shut off the sight will likely be empty, or at least low. As the bike sits, it seems to "fill" up as the oil drains back into the crank case.

One more thing- from what you have posted, it seems you are overfull with oil now- which is also bad. You need to get the excess oil out. If you have access to a small fluid pump: level the bike with what ever you can (lift, wood, whatever) and suck the oil out of the fill hole until it is 2/3 up the sight glass. Make sure the bike has been sitting for a while.

P.S. I'm curious. When the bike was not starting, was it clicking or making any noise?

I wall add an anicdote (sp?) once on Wendys bike after washing it she had gotten water under the boot on the sending unit causing her oil light to stay on. I paniced thinking the oil pump was bad. Prompted me to make our oil pressure gauges so I could see what the actual pressure was. Could be something along those lines. Water under the boot or a bad sending unit or another simple cause. Cowboy is also correct in that you will not get a correct reading if you check your oil right after running the bike. There should be a small part of the sight glass with no oil at the top if the level is correct at it's max. If the entire glass is covered chances are that qt. you put in over filled it and needs to come out.

Whatever else you do, get a written paper trail of everything that happened. Write it up, include names, dates, every conversation, even your communications with the forum, and send it to the dealer, return receipt requested. If, right after the warranty has expired, your engine packs it in, you will have a better chance at repair/replacement.

If I understand this, the bike will not turn over. Take it back to the dealer. If they remove the sparkplugs and put it in gear, it can be pushed around, unless the engine is seized. It's a brand new bike, under warranty, doesn't work. Your dealer needs to take care of it. Be tough. Good luck.

She said it starts now (I think) .
The bike "turns on".
Is that right Elizabeth?
If it does start, how does it sound?

Thanks, guys. Everyone!

Being a new owner, I was aware that I might have missed something. So, for clarification.... I knew I wasn't necessarily seeing the right amount if I was trying to hold the bike up and bend over to look at the sight glass. So I had a friend who is a longtime rider come over to double check what I was seeing and doing BEFORE I panicked completely and certainly before I called the dealer! He saw the same things I did- the barest smidge of oil at the very bottom of the sight glass when the bike was upright (not on it's stand- he held it up while I looked and then we switched), and that it would not start. At first there was a slight sputter. Then nothing- no sound, not a sputter. Just nothing.

LOVE the mirror idea, btw. Fantastic!

The next day he was here again when I was talking with the dealer, and he again saw the same things I did- that the sight glass was VERY full of oil and that it started.

The filter thing seems a bit weird to me. I'm certainly no mechanic, but I don't see how the filter could hold that much oil. I also asked if the extra quart I put in would pose a problem if the capacity is around 4 quarts and there was about 5 quarts in there and he said it wouldn't be a problem. True? False?

When I put the quart of oil in, I had no idea what the tank capacity was. That was one of my questions in my original post. So I didn't know that my seeing the wee bit on the bottom of the sight glass meant that there had to be oil in there already.

Not sure what the oil cooler is, but I'll research that now too and see what new and exciting questions I can come up with.

It's running fine now. Or seemingly fine. Sounds great. No sputtering or stalling. Just a nice, healthy engine sound. Or seemingly healthy engine sound! When I get back from my business trip I think I'm going to take it to another dealer to have them take a looksee.

Keep your thoughts coming!

I don't think the extra oil will hurt anything, but it could be a bit messy if it starts to blow out of the breather into the airbox. (more confusion? )
Best to drain it into a clean pan and put it back in to the proper level. Should be around 3.2-3.4 quarts with a full filter remaining on the bike. It'll take around 3.6-3.8 quarts with a filter change.

The oil cooler is the radiator looking thing between the front frame downtubes, just in front of the engine.

If you'll be doing some of your own maintenance, peruse the "tech vault", lots of good info there. If you don't find what you need, or don't understand what you do find, or need some clarification, just ask.