 Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Is It Me ?? I've just fitted a set of braided hoses to the bike and for some reason I can't get any pressure at the rear pedal and not much pressure at the front brake lever !! Over the years I must have bled out dozens of brake systems but this one has me beat.
I've pumped about two pints of fluid through....all the old stuff is out....but still have no rear brake and very little front.
Any handy tips to cure the problem would be most welcome !!!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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some people have had good luck bleeding as you say and then tie the brake with a bungee or rope applying pressure overnight and finish bleeding in the morning
Erwin
05 America
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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I you go to page 6 of this forum you will find a list of possibilities under bleeding brakes the last post by revnd might be the best one for you co's I wrote it and had the same problem
just dont get brake fluid every where
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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run a plastic hose from the bleeder nipple into a jar (CLEAN!) with break fluid in it, pump until no more bubbles then close bleeder. pump up and you should get break pedal. Make sure as you are pumping you keep the fluid level up.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Thanks for the replies.....I'll let you know how I get on !!!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Oil Expert
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Steve I had the same problem a couple of weeks ago, - for some reason it helped to put the white plasic cover over the top of the reservoir.  And definitely bungee the lever overnight - dont know how, but it works Good luck Shaun
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Cheers Guys.....currently got the pedal and the lever zip-tied and bungee'd, so I'll leave it to the morning and see how it feels. It's the first time in 34 years of bike maintainence that I've had a problem bleeding a system.... I was even gonna resort to a trip to the Triumph dealers to get them to pull the fluid through by vac-pump !!!
Fingers crossed....but a parcel has just arrived from Brent, so I've got some more goodies to go and bolt on now !!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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As has been noted elsewhere, the bubble at the top of the line by the caliper can be pretty stubborn.
The workaraound for that is pull the caliper & let it hang to bleed.
Said Molly to James, that's a fine motorbike.
Richard Thompson
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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UK brake bleeder Im sure you can find these some where possibly even cheaper
Erwin
05 America
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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You can pump a 55 gal drum of fluid thru there and it still will not get firm.
You MUST remove the caliper from the bike, place a couple pieces of paint stir stick or some other block in between the pistons and wall. then let it drop down as low as possible, and rebleed.
Same thing with the front.
ModelMaker
Your not the boss of me!!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Thanks for all the help folks !! I've managed to get some pressure in the system using the tips you've given me so I've now got some brakes on the bike. I've ordered one of those vac pump jobs so hopefully the problem shouldn't arise again !
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2007
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Just got through changing out the pads on my Wife's TBA.
Holy hard time batman!
I have bled more then one brake system in the past but I have never had the problems I had with this one.
Back brake bled pretty easy. I had the caliper completely off at one point so the system was dry. I was able to just bleed in the regular fashion and it worked slick.
The front was a different story. I had that caliper off also and put new seals in it. I could get no pressure at all trying to pump fluid through it in the conventional fashion, even with the caliper off the disc and hanging straight down. I borrowed a vacuum pump and tried that method and was able to get a little pressure but not what it should be.
I then let it sit over night with the brake lever depressed and there was no improvement.
I then just for the heck of it, pumped up what pressure I could get and cracked the banjo bolt at the reservoir.
Voila! Apparently that fitting is an air bubble trap.
Got good brakes now!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Okay this thread saved me. It's ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to let the front caliper hang while bleeding the brakes. I went through a small bottle of fluid before I referenced this thread. Then it took a couple ounces out of the second bottle to finish up.
P.S. I used a yardstick between the brake pads to keep them separated. As was mentioned previously this gave them something to press against and made it easier to fit the caliper on the disc when I was done.
That said, the previously suggested paint stir sticks would've been more manageable.
Last edited by FriarJohn; 09/02/2007 11:43 PM.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I'm betting this thread and the one mentioned earlier on "page 6" would be good in the "How To's" section of the tech vault.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Quote:
I'm betting this thread and the one mentioned earlier on "page 6" would be good in the "How To's" section of the tech vault.
Good idea !! Would have saved me a lot of cursing, time, loss of temper and a bottle of brake fluid !! There's no mention of the technique needed in the Haynes manual so a link to the thread would be great in the tech vault.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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I agree. A link to this thread has been added to the Tech Vault under Brakes.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Good one Phil. I'll be using that link soon myself when I do my brakes for the first time. Thanks for putting it up there 
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Quote:
P.S. I used a yardstick between the brake pads to keep them separated. As was mentioned previously this gave them something to press against and made it easier to fit the caliper on the disc when I was done.
That said, the previously suggested paint stir sticks would've been more manageable.
Shim shingles, too.
Said Molly to James, that's a fine motorbike.
Richard Thompson
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 Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I replaced pads and brake fluid earlier this year and didn't have to let the calipers hang to bleed them. I used a Mighy-Vac pump. Instead of opening the bleeder and then pumping the vac I left the bleeder closed and built up about 25"hg of vaccum and then cracked open the bleeder. Worked pretty well. I tied up the lever overnight and re-bled it in the morning, but it really didn't need it. Most nights I leave the front brake held on with a rubber band. Keeps the lever firm so far.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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On some airplanes you have to bleed the brakes backward...fluid in at the caliper. Seems that it can be tough to get those bubbles to flow downhill.
2006 TBA
2002 Corvette Z06
1991 Mercedes 300E
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Quote:
I replaced pads and brake fluid earlier this year and didn't have to let the calipers hang to bleed them. I used a Mighy-Vac pump. Instead of opening the bleeder and then pumping the vac I left the bleeder closed and built up about 25"hg of vaccum and then cracked open the bleeder. Worked pretty well. I tied up the lever overnight and re-bled it in the morning, but it really didn't need it.
Most nights I leave the front brake held on with a rubber band. Keeps the lever firm so far.
I used a mitivac but still had to hang the caliper to get the last air bubbles out.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Quote:
On some airplanes you have to bleed the brakes backward...fluid in at the caliper.
Back bleeding.
Makes some sense, depending on how the lines are routed.
I think there was a discussion of it here some time ago.
Said Molly to James, that's a fine motorbike.
Richard Thompson
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Oil Expert
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I've just replaced my front brake lines with braided ones and again the same old story, having trouble. In fact, I can't even get the fluid from the reservoir down through the new lines. I've cracked both the speed bleeders and tryed to hang the calipers up etc but nothing. Do I have to pump the brake lever, or do I bungee it open. Whatever I do, it just seems to stay in the reservoir. I must be doing something wrong. HELP HELP PLEASE HELP 
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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OK take a glass jar and put a piece of tubing on the bleeder ( start with the caliper farthest from the master cyl. being the right one witch is farthest if you follow the lines) fill the jar 1/2 way give or take with break fluid and put the end of the tube in the jar so the end of the tube is under the level of fluid all the way to the bottom if possible. now open the bleeder and be sure you keep the master cyl. full. (don't pump it with the cap off it could squirt) now pump it, you should see bubbles in the jar. Keep pumping until there are no more bubbles making sure not to drain the master cyl. since you don't want to put more air in the system. It takes quite awhile since each pump doesn't move much fluid and don't pump too fast you need to allow a little time for the master to draw more fluid in. nice even slow pumps are best. Once you see no more bubbles that caliper is done, move to the next one you should get little or no air out of that one. I have a vacume pump here that I use on stubborn ones but you don't need one. You can do the same thing by pumping the lever a few times then holding it tight to the grip, while holding it against the grip open the bleeder slowly to allow some air/fluid out then close the bleeder again. (never let all the pressure out that would allow air back in) pump it, hold it, open bleeder,close bleeder, release, repeat.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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I too had a problem with the back brake even after vacuum bleed - hung caliper - standard bleed then settled for a soft peddle. The next day I rode and parked the bike. The following day I bleedd it again and a small amount of air came out. Brake OK now.
Question-
On the dual disc speedmaster do you let both calipers hang while bleeding?
On an auto you do the brake furthest away from the master cylinder first. Is this what you do on a motorcycle?
Thank for you help,
Gary
If your ship doesn't come in - swim out to it !
Nothing but Triumph -'05 Speedmaster - Ride with the NorCal Presidents
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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cheers Ian, I wasn't sure which caliper to do first so I'll do the right one first and then the other. I'll see how I go this time. Can someone tell me what good are the speed bleeders? I've put them on and was under the impression I didn't then need to submerge the tube. Is that right?
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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When I changed the front lines on my Speedmaster I didn't disturb the calipers all I did was bleed them like I posted above.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Quote:
Can someone tell me what good are the speed bleeders? I've put them on and was under the impression I didn't then need to submerge the tube.
Right.
That's what the internal check valve does.
But, it's a mixed blessing.
Since it takes a bit of pressure to open the valve, a system that's been fully evacuated may not do it.
That's likely what's giving you trouble.
Said Molly to James, that's a fine motorbike.
Richard Thompson
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
run a plastic hose from the bleeder nipple into a jar (CLEAN!) with break fluid in it, pump until no more bubbles then close bleeder. pump up and you should get break pedal. Make sure as you are pumping you keep the fluid level up.
I do what Dog33 says above, but I make sure the bottle and plastic hose is higher than the brake caliper. This way the air has no were to go but up and away from the brakes.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Thanks Ian,
I installed the front new braded lines after work today and I followed your procedure and it worked well. The lever pressure appears to be the same as before and the old, brownish DOT 4 fluid is out and only clear fluid was present when i finished the bleeding process.
Thank you,
Gary
If your ship doesn't come in - swim out to it !
Nothing but Triumph -'05 Speedmaster - Ride with the NorCal Presidents
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Hey nomad how are you managing? if non of the easy ways work tell us so and I will give you the long way round that never fails but is a little more involved.
Blessings
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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For what it's worth, and I certainly don't want to seem like a know it all, my experience has been to quick bleed brakes conventionally then just walk away. the air bubbles that you can't possibly push downhill(even worse with ape hangers)will always rise to the master cylinder. Just go out and squeeze the lever a few times every so often over a couple hour period.I swear it works, and what could be easier then doing nothing.
If you use this method don't use a bungee or zip tie on the lever; doing so shuts off flow to the system. If you ever need to leave a system open overnight, tie off the lever, you won't lose a drop.
Hope this helps!
Strangler
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Well guys first thing, thanks for all your suggestions and replies. I have at long last sorted my bleeding issues to a point where I believe my front brakes will work fine. I forget to mention in my last post how after taking the speed bleeders off and putting on the stock numbers, I was able to draw fluid through the lines. I think there must have been a certain amount of restriction as suggested by some so at least I for one have learnt something from this process. The other part was trying to get a descent amount of resistance on the break lever. I think as they were new lines, it created lots of miniscule bubbles of air that only after time were able to be expelled. Even now I'm not entirely sure it is as good as it should be but I think I read how others have given it another go after a period and even by leaving the calipers on. So Provided they pull me up properly, which I'm pretty certain they will, I'll do the same myself just to see if some of the more stubborn bugg*rs are as good as they say they are  I tell you one thing though, the vacuum whatsamagigs sound good at the moment 
Last edited by Staffo; 02/09/2008 10:10 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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I thought I had it all together on bleeding brakes - done gobs of 'em . Just did my brakes , saw this thread , went and unfurled my caliper , let it dangle , and instantly a stream of tiny bubbles rose upwards through my bleeder tube . Never would have thought it . Like Friar said , it's imperative to do this . There's a cavity in there where air gets trapped and 55 gallons of DOT 4 won't get it out . Try also gently tapping the caliper with a SOFT tapper thing.
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Member
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Hi Guys, Some info for you all....
Tying back the brake lever puts pressure on any air bubbles in the system thus reducing their size and having the effect of making the brakes feel less spongier but they will expand again after the pressure is released.
Hence the spongier feeling will worsen as the brakes warm up after usage as the bubbles expand, this is a major cause of brake fade with brake systems after repeated heavy usage.
The only real fix is to remove ALL air from the system using the tricks others have described, It can also help to bleed them after they have been warmed up which makes the bubbles larger and easier to move, cheers all, Tadpole
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Hi Guys, Left this out, sorry, You can use a hair dryer to warm up the system prior to bleeding, works a treat, cheers, Tadpole
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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All you brake gurus out there...I need a bit of clarification please. Ive read this thread a few times now and am not seeing my answer so here it goes...
I have pulled my front wheel (new tire getting installed tomorrow) so I figure why not repalce the pads while I'm there.
Paint stir stick between the new pads (same thickness as rotor), caliper is hanging currently and lever held tight by tying it down. Here are my questions:
- Do I leave the resevoir cap on or off?
- Is the caliper OK to hang overnight by the brake hose or should I alleviate some tension via zip tie or otherwise?
- Should I use that anti brake squeal stuff and if so where (Ive never used it on my cars so I have no thoughts on it)?
Thanks
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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1. On
2 would be OK but taking the weight off the line would be better.
3 I never use it so I would say no.
Doesn't hurt to scuff the rotor with a surface prep pad id you have it but isn't really needed either.
Why do you have it hanging with the lever depressed? Did you open the bleeder?
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Brake Bleeding Help Needed !!!!!
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Why do you have it hanging with the lever depressed? Did you open the bleeder?
I bled the brakes a few months ago and they have been a touch squishy. I figure I have a bubble so as good a time as any to try and get it out IF its there. It could be that the pads may have just been getting worn.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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