 Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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If true that really sucks someone would mislead you like that when in business selling part. Should either be in a stock head or noted in the ad that head work was done!
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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if you look at the dyno sheet it tells what mods have been done to achieve each of the different power numbers
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: cams
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Quote:
so chris was the difference in performance heaps or just ok & did u change the carbies
Yes it was heaps. I didn't change the carbies, just all the little bits like needles, jets and freak K&N filters etc. I could afford the $ to do the carbies if I wanted to but just have not found the need because I am very happy with the work I have done so far. I still love riding it after 12 months since big bore.
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: cams
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Hi, Which part have we not explained clearly? We can of course at times get things wrong, but I can't quite understand the confusion here.  If I can be of any further assistance please just ask. Cheers  Thunderbike is full of it. They won't give any cam specs, and the graph they show (by their own admission, I traded a few emails with Graeme) is on an engine with headwork AND their cams. So the dyno runs (subjective anyway) are basically false adverstising. BS. 100%. No Fing way are cams alone are going to net those results. You want 80-85hp? get a wiseco 904 and a set of mikuni flat slides. Period. Forget cams.
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Hi, We do of course agree with what you say here my friend but I feel we are being unfairly misrepresented in this case. I am assuming that this is the dyno charts being referred to (correct me if I`m wrong) as it is the bhp version for the 270degree 900's that we show on our shopping site. What do you think - can we be any more specific? Quote:
If true that really sucks someone would mislead you like that when in business selling part. Should either be in a stock head or noted in the ad that head work was done!
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Re: cams
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Since we have the man here, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, why won't you guy's confirm/ deny the specs of the cams? We, of course, want the cam specs. Mega Cycles and others do. I can understand not wanting to disclose specs for intellectual property, but can you at least confirm or deny that they are not the 790 cams specs? Those of us with 865's would really like to know!
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Hi, Thanks for asking, really. The reason is purely that we dont want anyone just copying them, we spent over a year from start to finish getting these for sale and dont wish to simply dish out the info - results yes, anytime, we are more than happy to oblige. As has been mentioned before however these cams are not for everyone, Triumph went to great deal of time and trouble to ensure a reliable robust unit which would operate safely from idle to maximum rpm. Some people it is clear are either uncomfortable using the 2nd half of their tacho or simply choose never to do so and we respect that, for those owners I`d say that to be fair overall the benefits are of minimal value. If however you like to let her rip now and again (or more so...) then for you it is a completely different situation altogether. We tried and tested a very large and varied series of camshaft grinds from mild to wild, including an interesting F1 Cosworth DFV grind from the 70's that we found, that seemed from our experience likely to benefit the twins, both 865cc and 790cc models. The DFV cam is on the left, they were a 3500cc V8 32 valve which translates to an 875cc twin. I am also more than happy to absolutely and completely deny the suggestion that our cams are simply remanufactured or copies of 790cc items. I hope that can now maybe help put that one to bed for you 865 guys.  I might also like to clarify a couple of other points as well if I may. One is that we have at no point EVER fitted a set of 790cc cams to an 865cc motor and the second is that despite our various tests etc. we have never found a grind for the 790cc motor that we felt comfortable to offer for retail. I am currently planning at the moment to make some street/track cams for my KTM Superduke 990 racebike and going through all of this again....(well nearly) We are now a KTM dealer as well these days. Thanks again for giving me the chance to answer your questions. Nice to be back - got some new Graemelins too I see, all the best  Quote:
Since we have the man here, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, why won't you guy's confirm/ deny the specs of the cams? We, of course, want the cam specs. Mega Cycles and others do. I can understand not wanting to disclose specs for intellectual property, but can you at least confirm or deny that they are not the 790 cams specs? Those of us with 865's would really like to know!
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we have never found a grind for the 790cc motor that we felt comfortable to offer for retail.
I'd like you to elaborate on this if you would. Was it a issue of cost effectiveness versus performance gain? Or was it a durability issue or something else?
Thanks...
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Re: cams
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Hi, Simple really, we have found the take up on the 865 cams to be less well received than we might`ve hoped at one time given our level of input and although it has been a project that we would consider to be one that was worthwhile with many very happy owners, we have found that the benefits gained during testing on the 790cc motor to carry a less than convincing benefit and in our opinion not worthy of retailing ie. the std. 790 cam isn't a bad grind at all. Thanks for your question. Quote:
we have never found a grind for the 790cc motor that we felt comfortable to offer for retail.
I'd like you to elaborate on this if you would. Was it a issue of cost effectiveness versus performance gain? Or was it a durability issue or something else?
Thanks...
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Member
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Quote:
I might also like to clarify a couple of other points as well if I may. One is that we have at no point EVER fitted a set of 790cc cams to an 865cc motor.............
Surely you guys must have fitted 790 cams to an 865 motor, to get a baseline of were you are heading with development of your own cams????????
Come on, spill the beans, what are the specs of your 865 cams...........
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Quote:
Come on, spill the beans, what are the specs of your 865 cams...........
Still confidential... 
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Re: cams
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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does all that then mean that the 790 cams are very good or have I missed something here once again 
Ray(UK)
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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790 cams are very good from what I have been able to gather. I haven't seen anything out with much of an improvement over them. The improvement is over the 865 cams.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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 Re: cams
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
790 cams are very good from what I have been able to gather. I haven't seen anything out with much of an improvement over them. The improvement is over the 865 cams.
On Dinqua's site there's a bit about replacing the 790 exhaust cam with a 790 intake cam, but I haven't seen any dyno results from it.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: cams
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I have a spare set of 790 cams, will these go in the 865's without modification in anyway then.
Ray(UK)
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Re: cams
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I have a spare set of 790 cams, will these go in the 865's without modification in anyway then.
As long as they're BA or Speedy cams, yes.
Standard Bonneville 790's won't work.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: cams
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a spare set of 790 cams, will these go in the 865's without modification in anyway then.
As long as they're BA or Speedy cams, yes.
Standard Bonneville 790's won't work.
Excellent, there off an America, thanks Brian
Ray(UK)
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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That is important since one is 360 timing and the other 270.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Quote:
790 cams are very good from what I have been able to gather. I haven't seen anything out with much of an improvement over them. The improvement is over the 865 cams.
On Dinqua's site there's a bit about replacing the 790 exhaust cam with a 790 intake cam, but I haven't seen any dyno results from it.
As stated on that part of my site; I have never done it myself. But there is a lot of discussion on the flat-track forums about the different cam timing by swapping them around like this discussion is about.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: cams
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Quote:
On Dinqua's site there's a bit about replacing the 790 exhaust cam with a 790 intake cam, but I haven't seen any dyno results from it.
I've done it. I got 76 RWHP and 69.5 torque at ~3800 rpm.
That's with slightly ported head, adjusted ignition and a Weber DCOE carb.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Overgrown goldfish? That is a bunch, explain the carb you mentioned.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Re: cams
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Holy Carp! Quote:
Overgrown goldfish?
with holes in them.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
I got 76 RWHP and 69.5 torque at ~3800 rpm. That's with slightly ported head, adjusted ignition and a Weber DCOE carb.
Can we get some further info? I think what you are saying is you got those numbers by changing the exhaust cam, slightly porting (sounds like you cleaned up the rough stuff on the intake, right?), adjusting the ignition (would like to hear more on this), and changed the carb setup? You say 'a Weber', so does that mean you have modified to have a manifold to accept a single carb?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: cams
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Quote:
Can we get some further info? I think what you are saying is you got those numbers by changing the exhaust cam, slightly porting (sounds like you cleaned up the rough stuff on the intake, right?), adjusting the ignition (would like to hear more on this), and changed the carb setup? You say 'a Weber', so does that mean you have modified to have a manifold to accept a single carb?
This mod was actually done on my '02 Bonneville, which has the 360 motor.
What I did was swap out the existing exhaust cam with a new stock intake cam. Cam timing was done visually to match the cam timing that the previous exhaust cam had.
The intake cam has slightly higher lift, 0.1 mm I think, and 2 deegres more duration compared to the exhaust cam. I possibly also got the opening time slighty earlier since max torque now comes sooner than before having done this mod. But this is just a guess, I haven't yet measured the new exhaust timing. But the bike runs quite well though.
The head was ported (only on the intake side) to clear some passages and otherwise as you say, clean up the rough stuff.
The ignition was altered to have +3 on the upper part. I actually have full advance as early as 2500 RPM.
When I dynoed the bike I had a Weber on. Now I have a dual Dellorto. Performance is about the same but driveability is better with the Dellorto since it has more progression holes, giving a smoother transition from the low speed circuit to the main circuit.
I did my own intake to match the head, yes.
FD
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Re: cams
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One thing I am still unclear on. the 790 cam is considered good. the 865, not so good. the performance cam for 865 is NOT a 790 cam, and thunderbike says they didnt try it. Why, I have to ask, did they not, and what happens when you just change the 865 cams for older 790 ones? anybody know?
G
I never wanted to lead, and I never wanted to follow.
I just wanted to ride.
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
... and what happens when you just change the 865 cams for older 790 ones? anybody know? G
And that is the crux of the question.
I'd like to point out that the 76 RWP on the thrux 790 is respectable, but not what I thought we were talking about. the Thrux is a different animal with all that has already been discussed as well as higher compression from the factory. They make 70 or so BHp bone stock.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: cams
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Iterestingly, the newer 865 thrux motor calls for the same cam as whats in the bonneville, so I am not sure they are different now, altho the earlier ones would seem to be
G
I never wanted to lead, and I never wanted to follow.
I just wanted to ride.
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Re: cams
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Quote:
I'd like to point out that the 76 RWP on the thrux 790 is respectable, but not what I thought we were talking about. the Thrux is a different animal with all that has already been discussed as well as higher compression from the factory. They make 70 or so BHp bone stock.
The Thrux doesn't make 70 RWHP bone stock and the compression is the same as for the Bonneville. In some early brochure there was an erroneous higher compression figure.
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
[...The Thrux doesn't make 70 RWHP bone stock[\quote]
I wrote BHP- break horse power- at the crank.
[quote}... and the compression is the same as for the Bonneville. In some early brochure there was an erroneous higher compression figure.
Just going off a conversation I had with my dealer...
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Quote:
Just going off a conversation I had with my dealer...
Change dealer. 
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Sometimes this place gets on my nerves...
Change dealers! Why? With cams, carbs, and head work 79 RWP isn't really that big a deal. There are Thruxton's out there making lot more power than that. But, I'll certainly be changing dealers because King Thruxton here interjected only slightly related useless hearsay into a thread cuz he thinks he is the HP czar. You have Munchausen syndrome in torque...
The topic is about 790 cams in a 270 deg 865 motor. Focus, grasshopper....
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: cams
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Calm down Texas cowboy. If you have some facts to support your idea about Thruxton having 70 RWHP stock (which you don't cause it simply isn't so), please present them. I understand that your sole purpose with this is to try making it into a slanging match. Well, I won't bite that bullet.
If you want to go on about it with your nonsense some more please do, I really don't care which. Be my guest.
To other forum members, I'm sorry to have been dragged in to this the way it turned out, it surely wasn't my intention. I just wanted to give input on some mods I've done to my '02 790 Bonneville.
Enough said, time to move on...
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Re: cams
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fastdude, thanks for your input.
Cowboy, some of the old literature said the thrux would have higher compression than the bonnie, but it does not. I've also found that the dealers usually know Jack Sh!t about anything aftermarket, at least mine does. He also had the gall to tell me that 865 cams are better than 790 cams! My guess is b/c the Triumph literature said "the thruxton has hotter cams".
Nonsense!
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The guys at Hermys know some about after market stuff and even make their own exhausts for them with removable baffles. There are a couple guys there that have done extensive mods to their bikes. The one guy sold his recently.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Calm down Texas cowboy. If you have some facts to support your idea about Thruxton having 70 RWHP stock (which you don't cause it simply isn't so), please present them. I understand that your sole purpose with this is to try making it into a slanging match. Well, I won't bite that bullet.
If you want to go on about it with your nonsense some more please do, I really don't care which. Be my guest.
To other forum members, I'm sorry to have been dragged in to this the way it turned out, it surely wasn't my intention. I just wanted to give input on some mods I've done to my '02 790 Bonneville.
Enough said, time to move on...
Well, well, well. Okay, boy. I believe I shall retort (since I'm your guest and all). No one was "slanging" until you tossed it out. Furthermore, do not assume you know me or my sole purpose, cuz you don't know me, skippy. But, since you're new, I won't make an example of you this time, but I will answer your challenge to document my claims (yes, son, I do have facts). I'm not the type to talk out of my hole under the guise and ambiguity that a forum can provide, just to be a big man- a straw man. You see, I'm genuine and honest all the time. Ambiguity does not serve me. However, you, dear boy, are a fool. The next time you want to punk someone out, be sure you have done your homework as well...
So to address your childish post (and pay attention this time- I won’t repeat myself- again):
Both times I've said BHP. That would be break horse power. That would be at the crank and is advertised in several places. Below are a few:
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/triumph_thruxton_2007.php
Quote:
Engine and transmission
Displacement: 865.00 ccm (52.78 cubic inches)
Engine type: Twin
Stroke: 4
Power: 70.00 HP (51.1 kW)) @ 7200 RPM
Torque: 72.00 Nm (7.3 kgf-m or 53.1 ft.lbs) @ 6400 RPM
Compression: 9.2:1
Bore x stroke: 90.0 x 68.0 mm (3.5 x 2.7 inches)
Fuel system: Carburettor
Fuel control: DOHC
Ignition: Digital - inductive type
…
http://www.webbikeworld.com/triumph-motorcycles/bonneville-thruxton/
Quote:
Engine
• Type Air-cooled, DOHC, parallel-twin, 360 degrees firing interval
• Capacity 865cc…
Performance (Measured to DIN 70020)
• Maximum Power 70PS (69bhp) at 7,250 rpm
• Maximum Torque 72Nm (53ft.lbf) at 5,750 rpm
http://www.triumphdetroit.com/bikes2.cfm?bike=30
Thruxton
Engine
Type Air-cooled, DOHC, parallel-twin, 360° firing interval
Capacity 865cc
Bore / Stroke 90 x 68mm
…
Performance (at crankshaft to DIN 70020)
Maximum Power 70PS (69bhp) at 7200rpm
Maximum Torque 72Nm (53ft.lbf) at 6400rpm
http://www.powersportstv.com/2007/Triumph/Thruxton/900/Motorcycle/23759/
Quote:
Triumph Thruxton Engine
Engine Type: Parallel Twin
Cylinders: 2
Engine Stroke: 4-Stroke
Horsepower (bhp): 69
Displacement (cc): 865...
http://www.motorcyclingblog.com/specs/triumph-thruxton-900-2007
Quote:
Specifications Triumph Thruxton 900 2007
Type Cruiser
Retail Price -
Engine Type Air cooled, twin, 4-stroke
Displacement 865cc (52.8 cubic in.)
Bore x Stroke 90.00 mm x 68.00 mm (3.5 in. x 2.7 in.)
Compression Ratio 10.2:1
Fuel System Twin carburettors with throttle position sensor and electric carburettor heaters
Valves DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder
Lubrication -
Ignition Digital - inductive type
Max Power 70 hp (51.5 kW) at 7200 rpm
Max Torque 72 Nm (53.1 ft. lbs) at 6400 rpm
Sorry for my response to have taken so long- I've been out of town- or I would have PWNED you sooner. Now, sugar-britches, apologize and go make me a sandwich.
To the rest of you- enjoy... lol.
(Don't take it too hard, Urban. It's in good fun- but you asked for it, dood :simle:)
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Cowboy, maybe you should check out fastdude website. He does indeed know a thing or two about theses engines. Probably more than anyone else around here.
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Cowboy, maybe you should check out fastdude website. He does indeed know a thing or two about theses engines. Probably more than anyone else around here.
I did and I agree he knows his stuff. I like his site- and never questioned his comments. Point is, he attacked me and I just don't appreciate it nor will I tolerate it. When I'm wrong, I admit it. There was no need for him throw me under the bus and try to make me out to be an idiot. No excuse. We usually are able to share our differences objectively, politely, and like adults. Urban broke that code. So now we deal with it.
But that said, I seem to be getting a lot of flack here, and I'm not sure why since I've not said anything out of place either. I get called out to provide facts- and and I did, but fastdude doesn't have to? He just has to make a flame post and thats the gospel? Please.
I seem to be the minority here. So if this is the governing soclial norm of BA.com now, well, I don't like it.
Peace to all and God bless.
Later~
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Learned Hand
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,018 |
Wasn't implying that he is god or anything and wasn't slamming you cowboy. Just didn't know if you were aware of who you were conversing with. Everybody can be wrong sometimes, even the wild swede. Don't really matter to me one way or the other. Best wishes and may all your children, (grandchildren for us older folks) be born naked.
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Re: cams
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 321
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 321 |
those specs that say the thrux has 10.2-1 comp ratio are incorrect, and have been changed. look at triumph's website, it says 9.2-1
it never had 10.2-1
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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