Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods Fuel Octane level

Hi all, every time I go to the service station, I have to make a choice of what octane level I should put in my speedie's fuel tank. Can anyone tell me what level is best? In Aus, we can choose from 98 down to 92 with the 98 being the highest octane at my servo. In doing some research and looking at the Triumph manual, I'm a tad confused what level to use. Is it true for instance that using the higher octane gives more bang for your buck and cleans at the same? Any ideas or conclusions would be appreciated.

The US manual recommends 89 octane mid grade. I don't know what Triumph may have done for the Australian market.

Unless an engine is engineered for a higher octane fuel, the use of higher octane fuels is like throwing money out the exhaust pipe.

Gasoline has as many myths attached to it as motor oil.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ded&spell=1

The Aussie user manual states 95 octane

The US manual states 95 RON (Researce Octane Number European), which I believe equates to 91 PON (Pump Octane Number US)

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

Gerry

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The US manual recommends 89 octane mid grade. I don't know what Triumph may have done for the Australian market.

Unless an engine is engineered for a higher octane fuel, the use of higher octane fuels is like throwing money out the exhaust pipe.

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ZAKLY - All higher octane does is retard ignition, therefore minimizing 'ping' due to pre-ignition. Think of the octanes as a chain of little explosive balls in linked clusters. The higher the rating the more clusters, the more clusters, the longer it takes the cluster to fully 'ignite'. Octane levels were developed and are maintained to address higher compression engines, in which the fuel can and often does ignite before spark to to being compressed, therefore providing for maximum effectiveness (power) from the fuel. The exception (there's always one or more exception to everything )In some cases of poor timing, higher octane can be used to compensate for the mis-match of the full compression of the fuel and the spark.

Reading this study, you can use acetone to raise octane and obtaine the same results of a 100RON using a 89-92RON carburant plus 1:1000 or 1,5:1000 of pure acetone.

I've used for long time, on Harley XL1200 and Kawasaki ZRX1200 wihout problems. You've to bringh with you a bottle acetone-resistant and have to be careful to don't drop on your tank or the paint will melt.

Some people are afraid acetone will swell or melt rubber pipes, o-rings and rubber seals, but from when the unleaded carburant was introduced petrol company used toluene to raise octane without lead. Toluene is strong solvent and is used in unleaded carburant up to 5%.

Acetone does good result at only 1:1000/1,5:1000 10-15ml per 10 litres of carburant and it works on diesel too.

Acetone works reducing surface tension of carburant molecules resulting in better air atomization.

It gives better mileage, 2-3 more ponies and better acceleration, 20-50% more clean exhaust gases from incombusted HC, more clean combustion chamber.
The reason because petrol companies don't add acetone to carburant is due to the immediate lost of 10-20% profit due to immediate better mileage people notice, and because not all vehicles rubber pipes and seal into an engine are acetone-resistant.

Read this document for full informations.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive

Acetone is not compatible with certain flavors of fuel system seal materials, and could well cause seal failures.

(I had a list of which seal compounds go into melt down when in contact with acetone, culled from a chemical engineering database source, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.

I've read the raves regarding Acetone in gasoline, and they may well be 100% true. I have no proof either way, but not in my rides thank you. I'm not pickin' on ya Robert, just be aware that Acetone is a pretty serious solvent. We use it in the tank truck industry to clean out severely stained tank trailer interiors. In the right concentrations, it cuts through most anything in it's path.

Yes I know dangers related to the use of acetone.

Everybody use at their own risk.

I had no problems on my veihicles but certainly it's not true for every vehicle.

Once a friend of mine found it very useful.
Soon in my country will be obligatory to do a gas checking during periodical bike checkings. After brake, lights and other equipement controls they have added gas control.

Quite every riders of Harleys have paid the so called "Harley Tax", change pipes, air filter and carb tuning to free the engine.
When the control comes exhaust emissions are out of range.
Adding acetone and using it for 2 days before and during controls permits to reduce exhaust emissions and maybe pass the exhaust check.

And nitro-methane works great in top fuel dragsters.
For these bikes, with stock cams and compression, stick with the recommended octane (89 U.S.).
There is no such thing as liquid Shwartz.

Hey Staffo...

There's a bunch of different ways of measuring octane... the USA uses MON (Motor Octane Number) and most other countries (according to Wikipedia) use RON (Research Octane Number). There's also PON (Pump Octane Number) which is the average of RON & MON.

Anyway, the upshot of this for you is that here in Australia we use RON, and your manual says you have to use at least 95RON unleaded. You -can- use higher octane (eg: 98RON) but you won't get any benefit from it, despite what the gas companies want you to believe. Don't use lower than 95RON or you'll start getting pre-ignition problems.

FYI you can also use up to 10% ethanol blend unleaded, as long as it is 95RON or better. I've run it several times without any problem, and it's usually a few cents cheaper. It's hard to find though, as most gas companies only do an ethanol blend in regular (91RON) unleaded. In QLD the only company that regularly has 95RON & 98RON ethanol blend is "Freedom Fuels", and there's not many of them around.

I believe the entire US is now at a 10% Ethanol blend, but every time I think I'm caught up to what the EPA is up to, they change things again.

Funny how since the late 60s, every 'miracle' that has come from the Feds or the EPA with regard to motor fuels and vehicle emissions has lowered miles per gallon, which in turn, creates a tax windfall for the revenuers.

Forgive my pessimism, (and further OT) but soy & corn as a motor fuel source is political grab @ss. It doesn't make economic sense to produce. It does offer a politician seeking re-election the opportunity to state "I support alternate fuels!"

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It doesn't make economic sense to produce.

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Yet.

Few weeks ago I went to Austria to see a bio-diesel factory. Awesome technology. 1 liter of any kind of vegetable or animal fat, 100ml of methanol and a bit of caustic soda and you obtain 1 liter of bio-diesel 100ml of glycerin and a bit of fertilyzer. No waste of anything and everything is bio-degradable and organic.

A german company is building the first hi-performance turbo diesel motorcycle engine with a configuration similar to a Triumph in-line twin.

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/neander_1400_turbo_diesel_motorcycle/

it's so easy to make bio-diesel at home, Internet is plenty of resources that describes what you need and how-to do.

But what makes me astonished is the Joe Cell.

Search joe cell using google video or youtube.

Here a good resource:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Joe_Cell


And the Proton Cell is a joe cell version for air-cooled engines.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Proton_Cell

Being an open minded skeptic , I looked at a few Joe cell sites.

I quote:

Because the Joe Cell is creating a cloud like condition on the ground, it makes sense that it could influence weather conditions (Found at "A few observations about this technology", section C)

Recently he (Joe) assisted Bill Williams install a Joe cell to run his truck in America, with the fuel line disconnected. Bill was approached on April 6, 2006 by two men, who threatened him, telling him to stop all his alternative energy research or else (Found in the "About Peter Stevens" section, last paragraph.)

More on this:
Joe Cell Truck Builder Threatened, Destroys Plans


As our Joe cell geometry, chemistry, electrolysis, location, materials and experimenters vary from cell to cell, the Joe cell will thus produces a whole series of different effects for different experimenters. The cell can lose weight, cause rain, heal people, make people sick, "create" various elements and even do what you want it to do ie. power an internal combustion motor. (Found in the "An Interpretation using Walter Russel's Theories" section, part b)
==============================

I had to quit there. Conspiracy theories, influencing weather, lose weight.......

sigh.

thanks all, 95 Ron it is then, no less no more. Which reminds me of this "here lies (grave) Lester Moore, shot in the guts by a 44, no less no more". Sorry,

Use the cheapest grade that doesn't ping is the simple answer. Nail the throttle from about 3000 rpm, uphill is even better, if it pings, go to the next grade. Higher octane doesn't have more stored energy than lower, it resists detonation at higher compression so you can have a higher state of tune.

The one concession that I make is to always buy from a major brand with system cleaning additives. Prefer Chevron or 76.

Cody, Those number came from a study I read in Popular Mechanics sometime last year. And you are right, I misquoted that. It should have been "the cost of making a gallon of bio-fuel is apporoximatley the same as a gallon and a half of regular diesel fuel".

You have to remember that you are using fuel in the equipment (tractors and stuff) to grow and harvest the corn or whatever you are going to use. Then there is also the fuel you are going to use to process it. Even if you are gong to use electric equipment, that is still energy being used. That energy has to be made somehow, thus costing someone somewhere money.

I am not completley against "alternative" fuels. However, for a something that is not petroleum based to make sense, it needs to meet three requirements:
The total process needs to cost less than making gasoline or diesel
It needs to have as much or more volatility than gas or diesel (otherwise you end up using more to create the same amount of power or go the same distnace as you would with a petroleum based fuel)
The end user cost must be less than current gas or diesel prices (without subsidies from the government - because that is money out of our pocket too)

Sure I could go to a fast food place and get their old grease and make bio-diesel cheap, but that is cheap for me. It all had to be paid for someone else, so the overall cost is very high. So, my cost would be a phony cost, not a real cost.

So, back on the subject of the thread.. I usually run 89 octane (mid-grade) in my Speedy.

Soren

The other issue is displacing food crops in favor of fuel crops. It takes a whole lotta acreage to make x gallons of motor fuel.

I'll need to run, duck & cover after this one, but, we are going nuclear / battery in the not too distant future. It's already in the works.

http://www.nei.org/index.asp?catnum=4&catid=403

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2010+Initiative+nuclear&btnG=Search

I hate to go Mr, Pessimist again, but being in the business of transporting gasoline, motor fuels & hazardous materials, I can assure you that unless the feds supply well over 95% the drivers, vehicles, and liability coverage, Hydrogen will never become a widespread means of motor fuel for the masses. Who will move all that Hydrogen? It can't be piped. Go try to get set up to transport LP or propane. There are a total of two insurance carriers in North America who will write propane. Neither will write a new carrier with no track record to haul commodities requiring the legally mandated minimum of 5 million in insurance. Another issue is that the trailers we use to move Hydrogen are vessels designed to roll down the road at either 2,700 PSI, or 7,000 PSI, without cracking or bursting. A gasoline tanker costs around $60,000, and is good for around only 10 or 12 psi. I'll let you figure out what the Hydrogen tankers cost.

I'm not suggesting Hydrogen fuel isn't a highly promising technology, it just all falls down when the transport piece is introduced.

[I didn't even bring up the NIMBY issue of where to build all the Hydrogen plants required for short haul distribution.]

And now a word from atop the soapbox: I am all about freedom of choice, and if someone wants a big car with 10 MPG, they still should be able to have one. On the other hand, we as a nation need to wake up one of these days and get over our hoggish ways. We had the chance to learn during the oil embargo of the late 70s, and soon after forgot all we had learned. I don't pretend to have the answers on how to get the nation to conserve, and I am guilty of wasting fuels, but we will have to figure it out one of these days. I suppose the prices of fuel will make it happen for us.
We get p*ssed at big oil for their prices, but it's really quite simple - wanna know why they charge so much?
Because they can, and we keep buying it. If I were Mr Exxon, I'd probably be be charging even more.

I just read an article (in a certain rabit adorned mens mag) where they did an interview with a big oil guy, HE (one who knows his business) says we got till 2100( @ 85 million barrels a day production) before THEY predict no more gas/oil...said Hydrogen is a good science experiment but highly impracticle...claims Bio fule is to expensive and would have to have massive subsidies...it is his opinion that Natural gas my be the arternate fule of the future...it is already in wide spread use in many cities on buses and othe Gov. vehicles...and that WE need to stop using fule...he says the oil co.s are aware of the limited supply and are pricing accordingly...they will eventually price it to the point where we HAVE to conserve...ie carpool, drive higher mileage vehicles (like bikes) loose the moster SUV's and such....

Interesting to hear him say that big oil is pricing high to force conservation, (because it keeps them in business longer than if we p!ss through it all to soon)

Also he mentioned much cleaner Coal systems (producing far less greenhouse gasses) and of course Nukes for power generation

I can get specifics and names and such if interested but I don't have the article at the office it is at home...

Oh yeah I use 89

I bet there are a number of old f@rts in here who remember the turbine powered vehicles and Indy cars.

They too were going to save the world. I don't know about saving the world, but they certainly would have eliminated tailgating.

Anyone use 100LL aviation gas in their bikes?

I have run premium in my scoot since day 1 I bought my 04 half way through 05 with 700 miles on it and now have almost 11,000 on it. Soren you are wrong about 2 gal. of real diesel to make a smaller amount of bio. Bio works out to about 50 cents a gallon to produce if you do it yourself.Don't you ever watch Dirty Jobs? LOL

Bigbill is correct, you only really need high octane for high compression. Higher octane does seem to run smoother in my bike so thats all I run. Not cheap to ride anymore though when Wendy and I fill up it;s usually $20 or more IN A GD BIKE!!!!

I used to run 87 and she ran great.

Since the BB, I am now using 91 due to pinging and everything is cool again. Same mileage so no worries. I could care less about dropping a few more cents.